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Author | Topic: Is The World Getting Better Or Worse? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8551 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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The passion is great and the pain is real.
Most unfortunate is nothing will change. We have fucked their future.
From the Destroyed Generation (adjust in video volume first)Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8551 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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nobody really knows anything about the causes of climate change. quote: You are exactly why this whole species is fucked. Of course we know. We've known for the last 100 years +
Global Warming Warning 1922 But you right wing selfish greedy gluttons can't pull your heads out of your asses to look around. That great extinction event she referred to? It is here, today, now.
The Present Extinction Event We have killed so many already and there are so many more that are going to die because of us.
3 Billion Birds "All leftist propaganda." Yeah. I know you don't care. That's the pity. Arrogant denial. Stick your head further up there. We won't be around to see the worst of it. She will. And she knows it. Our poor children. Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8551 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Would you please give a brief synopsis of each of your links since I can't read them? The links weren't there for you but for the peanut gallery. You wouldn't understand the science or acknowledge the facts as other than leftist liberal propaganda meant to degrade your great christian stewardship of this planet.
a brief sketch of what you think needs to be done. You and the rest of the right are a lost cause but for everyone else the most important thing to do first is to acknowledge that the problem is real and, as much as a layman can, understand the science behind the facts. After that then steep carbon offsets and major investments in renewables can be instituted along with the social and personal lifestyle changes required, recognizing that this, if adopted en masse, will only keep things from getting even worse than the inevitable destruction we have already pissed into the system for the next 200+ years. Given the politics of the world today I am not optimistic. Unfortunately we may have already passed a tipping point and the Holocene Extinction will continue and may include H. Sapiens in the death toll in the next 10,000 years. But, hey, no one I know or love is going to be around to suffer the slow agonizing death of our species over the next few millennia so as long as my chardonnay is properly chilled who cares? Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8551 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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I care a lot about the world my grandkids are going to inherit. No you don't. You haven't the capacity. You have told us many times over the years that your god is going to come down here and destroy this world. Fixing our long term future means nothing to you since you, and hundreds of millions like you, don't see such a future. This blind insistence on scripture as prophecy keeps you idiots from seeing the problem let along needing to act to change it. Your religion is evil. And this Climate Change vs Revelations is one big reason why.
I don't want them to be under a Leftist dictator OR living in a destroyed world. Did you see Trump's response to young Greta's pleas? He mocked her saying "She seems very happy." The son of a bitch. With responses like that it is too late. As the climate grows worse for humanity strong dictators on both the far right and the far left, already on the rise, will grow even stronger. Our children will most probably live under dictatorships in a destroyed world. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8551 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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I'd also like to see some reasonable recognition that the Right isn't just out to destroy the environment but that it's apparently the needs of the economy that cause the problems you think need dealing with. It should be possible to take both sides into account. How do you deal with a philosophy whose long term view stops at next quarter’s bottom line? How do you deal with a society where the political and moneyed elite cannot change for fear of their election and their $500 million annual bonus? How do you deal with the largest multinational energy companies knowing the dangers of global warming for the last 50 years yet continuing to spend wildly to muddy the science to the public and curtail government efforts to even discuss the issue? Think the lies of Big Tobacco but a billion times bigger. How do you change the political and moneyed elite that control this world when they know that change will cost them trillions of $ and their control of the world? How do you deal with a regime that incents the right to violence to maintain an ever more damaging status quo? They have known for decades the dire damage they were inflicting on this world but their greed for money and power won’t let them stop. Not all the little girls standing in tears before the world will change that. They will not, cannot, compromise. They don't care if there is a revolution since they have all the bullets and bombs and will not hesitate to use them against anyone who threatens their bottom line. Besides, there are big profits to be made from war. As long as they are at the top of the garbage heap they don’t care that the species is fucked. To them there is only one side to take into account and it ain't us. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8551 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
That is true, but, natural sources like peat, termites, wetlands and ocean account for only 1/3 of global methane production.
Humans are the other 2/3 of methane production, with gas-coal-oil consumption, intensive farming (cow farts, etc) and landfills. And none of this addresses CO2 problems. Compared to our farm cows, termites are slightly more farty but that means nothing in the grand scheme of our environmental problems. Anthropic global warming deniers cannot use termite farts as any argument for natural causes since termite farts are a very small nit in the total methane problem and practically non-existent compared to total human greenhouse emissions. Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8551 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
how about giving us the chemistry of controlling methane so we can think about it. Don't let so much of it out to begin with. Stop gas drilling. Stop fracking. Eat less mammals. Reuse and recycle. Use Beano.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8551 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
You're already said you have no hope for anything to change so I assume you have no hope for these proposals either. The number 1 source of atmospheric methane production is the human drilling of natural gas. Do you think Big Carbon is going to stop drilling and selling this useful poison just because it's bad for our future? I don't think so because they have already shown us they don't care. Intensive farming with all its cow and pig and sheep farts, we as a population can affect by eating less cow, pig and sheep. This would help, slightly, and should be done, but it won't help all that much in reaching our greenhouse targets for 2100. So, no, like our CO2 problem, our methane problem, which is a huge contributor to the CO2 problem, I do not see being effectively addressed in our lifetime.
Even your proposals could work if those who believe in them put in the necessary commitment to persuade people or whatever else it takes. For decades there have been all kinds of good effective remediation proposals for our global warming problem already available just waiting to be instituted. The problem, Faith, is Big Carbon knows these will cost them hundreds of billions of $$$ and they have actively bought off the governments of the world from instituting them. They don't care. The governments don't care. The pols need their elections which Big Carbon can give them. Hell the USA doesn't even attend the global environmental conferences any more. They don't care! As individuals we can and should do all in our power to remediate what and where we can but even if our whole global society halved our individual carbon footprints starting yesterday the biggest baddest carbon polluters, the global industrial capitalist mega machines, are still out there and they don't care! It's already bad. It's going to get worse. We can lessen it a wee bit here and there by individual action, but Faith ... we're already fucked and Big Carbon is only going to make it worse still.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8551 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Conspiracy theories about entities such as "Big Carbon" characterized as having no concern at all for the future of the planet, aren't persuasive to me. Not some conspiracy theory, Love, a reality. See my Message 532 Big Carbon is real. It is composed of the 13 largest gas/oil/coal energy companies on this planet. All the biggies, BP, Chevron, ExxonMobil, Shell +
quote: But they also put up $6 billion in "R&D" money. As if we don't already know what the problem is or how to fix it. $50 billion in new drilling projects last year vs $6 billion in "R&D" money. Not even a nod or a wink to"oil and gas production needs to fall by about 20 percent by 2030 and by almost 55 percent by 2050" That is Big Carbon. They just do not care that they are burning up this planet.
While there are plenty of environmental problems that should be addressed, the overarching Climate Change analysis just sounds like hysteria The time for hysteria was 50 years ago but no one was interested. Today it should be full on panic but, again, no one is interested. As least no one that can actually help fix the problem. Because the climate change is slow, almost imperceptible on a human lifetime scale, it doesn't slap you in the face every time you walk out your door. And, just like you, unless it disrupts their comfortable routine, the vast majority of people don't think it's real. Big Carbon, like Big Tobacco before it, knows that if they can ignore, deny and muddy the waters enough people will ignore the science that has been revealing the truth for almost a century now and Big Carbon can go on making $billions every day. Every Day! They are succeeding and *the people*, addicted to oil like they were addicted to nicotine, don't see it and don't care to see it. This 1.5o C by the year 2100 was seen as a politically agreeable compromise by the world's governments years ago. It is *not* a majik limit under which we will be spared disaster. The disaster trigger point has already come and gone decades ago. The 1.5o C thing was seen as viable to keep *even worse* disaster from our door. And we are failing even that. The hysteria is real for a reason. The planet is already on fire and we just keep lighting more matches. You and I and most people alive today will not see the worst of it. Our grandchildren will. Nothing can stop it now. We can only hope to not make it worse but, again, we are failing even that. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8551 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Where is the serious and respectful consideration of our natural and understandable reaction to the horrific deprivations you are asking of us based only on an abstract science? Where was the serious and respectful consideration of the warnings 50 years ago when we had time to address the issue with considerably less deprivation than we face today? There were warnings of consequences. A foot in sea level rise, more frequent intense storms, loss of species, crop and habitat dislocations. The web is full of the results we are now feeling today. We were warned. We did nothing to stop it and now we are beginning to see the results. Now there are more dire warnings. Another foot of sea level rise, bigger more powerful more frequent storms, more dislocations, more loss, more death. What used to be 100-year floods, already more frequent, will start occurring annually, etc, all by 2050+-. And things will get worse from there. More inundations, heat waves, storms, desertification, new more virulent disease, crop failures, population dislocations well into the 2100s. But that’s not the bad stuff. As the breadbaskets of the present world begin to dry up and ecologies move north to what used to be colder climes the have’s of today will become the have not’s. The bad stuff will come when the deprivations get so severe whole societies rise up to rebel. The rise of dictator’s, left and right, promising relief and plenty. Wars over ever decreasing resources. Wars that will be ever more destructive, widespread and deadly. Many times more destructive than your End of Times come true without any kingdom of god in relief. So the choice. Do we disrupt the comfortable lives of today or kill hundreds of millions in the future? Our best science, evidenced in international meetings agreed to by the whole world, is that oil and gas production needs to fall by about 20 percent by 2030 and by almost 55 percent by 2050 in order to stop Earth’s temperature rising by more than 1.5o C. What do we do about it, Faith? The nations of the world put together a meager plan to try to address this dystopian future. We have done nothing to advance that plan. In fact, the political and moneyed elite, Big Carbon and the global capitalist mega-machines, have sought to delay and derail those plans. So now what? Keep our beer cold and just let dystopia happen? And make no mistake, regardless of the Big Carbon propaganda the science accepted by the world is pretty much settled and far from abstract, it *is* going to happen. The longer we delay action the more severe the deprivations will become. So what the fuck do we do about this, Faith? Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8551 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Stop accusing big business of evil motives when they are concerned basically with producing what society has needed to function. This society doesn’t need Coke or Pepsi in order to function. This society doesn’t need gas-guzzler SUVs in order to function. This society doesn’t need 2,3,4 cars per family in order to function. If we had paid attention in the 60’s and did what was necessary we wouldn’t today need so much fossil fuel burning in order to function. The first carbon offset tax schemes were introduced in the 60’s. They never made it to a vote in either the House of Senate. Why? Because Big Carbon dangled $millions of re-election funds in front of the pols faces and had the bills killed. Today, 2019, there are three carbon tax bills in the congress waiting action. Moscow Mitch McConnell has already stated that he will never allow them to come before the Senate. Guess who got a major share of his campaign funding from Big Carbon? I don’t have to accuse big business of evil motives. They demonstrate their evil to society on their face.
They will naturally change their focus in response to changes in lifestyle. Oh you naive sweetheart. Madison Avenue sets present society’s lifestyle, paid for by the major mega-corporations. This isn't the early 1900s anymore. We don't determine what we want. Business and their self-serving research focus groups do. Then Madison Avenue sells you on the deep dire need you never even knew you had. You NEED 20 different flavors of chips. You NEED 20 different flavors of soda. You NEED the latest smart phone every year. You NEED that new SUV every other year. You NEED because "they" say so. Resistance is futile.
LURE people away from the coasts? Today we don’t have to. They are getting washed off the coasts and can’t find or afford flood insurance to rebuild. Many communities now have zoning laws that say if your ocean front home gets flooded out you are not even allowed to rebuild regardless. You saw jar’s list of actions? If a carbon tax had been in place these last 50 years there could have been funding to help spare those fools who get washed away by sea level rise. Too late now.
Think in terms of solutions that can have capitalistic benefits. I would think keeping society intact would be quite beneficial to business, wouldn’t you? One of the proposals I like is to have an aggressive carbon tax on fossil fuels. The result would be drastic increases in fuel prices making alternatives more attractive. Bottom half of people in this economy (making less than $100,000) would get a hefty tax break meant to offset those increased fuel costs. Carbon gets priced at its more realistic social cost to the world, alternatives abound and the burden is borne by those who can afford it. Big Carbon would still be making $$ hundreds of billions but, alas, that would be $$ hundreds of billions less than they make now. New drilling would be curtailed as alternatives surge and fossil fuel usage decreased. Greed won’t allow that. The Moscow Mitch’s Big Carbon buys in the House and Senate will never let such a thing see the light of day.
If you want to eliminate 20% of fossil fuel production/use come up with enticing -- feasible and not prohibitively expensive -- alternatives instead of just legislating the death of the industry. Until we rid ourselves of the Moscow Mitch’s controlling government *no* proposal, no matter how fair to both humanity and business, will be allowed to come to bear. The best we can do today to solve this global warming crisis in the USofA is to jawbone this society into getting rid of the repugnicans and get us a good leftist socialist suite of progressive liberals into Washington. We won't destroy capitalism. We need them. But, they can be made to work for us instead of us for them.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8551 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Nationalize marijuana cultivation and synthetic production and make the products freely available through neighborhood medical clinics. With online ordering, snack purchase and Uber delivery options.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8551 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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The climate deniers are on a recent and massive internet campaign to throw salt, sand and probably carbon dioxide onto the science sites that report the actual climate science facts especially the reporting of the happenings this past month.
Here is one such target, ScienceAlert, and their analysis of recent comments to their climate change articles.
Do not feed the climate trolls (emphasis mine)
quote: This kind of intense reaction to science fact in the face of business propaganda we have seen before. Remember Big Tobacco. This is not a normal social disagreement. This is an orchestrated campaign by a well funded targeted lobby. Can anyone guess who?Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8551 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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I keep going back to Big Tobacco. We knew what the science was. They knew what the science was. Smoking caused millions of cases of cancer, emphysema, heart disease. But to the public, even in testimony to congress, they lied. In advertising they lied. They published their own medical studies that fudged the results. Finally, in 1997, when they could not contain all the lawsuits, they admitted their product kills people. Millions died because of their greed.
Today we see the same thing with the Big Carbon. We know what the science is. They know what the science is. But to the public, even in testimony to congress, they lie. In advertising they lie. They publish their own studies that have been shown to fudge the results. They spend billions on countering the evidence in public, in congress and, now, on social media. It is not a difference of opinion. It is an outright lie about the facts and the dead bodies they produce. In this case it is not a few million that will die of preventable disease, it is the whole of humanity and our existence on this planet that they threaten ... for money and power. I know you cannot understand, do not want to understand, the evil here. They have their black tentacles implanted in your brain. You, and so many millions of others, have fallen for their subterfuge and are now a major part of the problem our species faces.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8551 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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How is Big Carbon KILLING PEOPLE? Seriously? You can research dead birds but not dead people? Here, right off the top of the stack. SciAm 2009 - The Impact of Global Warming on Human Fatality Rates quote: And I don't want to hear any of your leftist liberal commie conspiracy bias crap! Our Global Warming problem is killing people *today* and will kill ever more ever faster in the decades and centuries to come.
It is not as similar to the Big Tobacco situation as you want to claim because we can all see the direct dangers of smoking, we cannot see this problem you impute to Big Carbon in the same way at all. Oh come on! You were around in the 70s-80s. You know the controversy and doubt Big Tobacco created in the public mind. Faith, why this disingenuous BS?Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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