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Author Topic:   Is The World Getting Better Or Worse?
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 257 of 762 (863516)
09-26-2019 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by jar
09-26-2019 7:12 PM


Water conservation
Water reserves should be top priority I agree. This last winter we had such a huge snowpack in the Sierra the reservoirs were overflowing, but that was a rare winter. Who was talking about collecting rainwater recently? California? They should, we in Nevada should. All through the Bible they talk about "cisterns" where they collected water. But as usual we all act like there is no need to think about the future, though again if anybody is REALLY convinced we're facing a global weather meltdown it would certainly be a good idea. But all it takes is a big winter to replenish the supplies. That's nice to know.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by jar, posted 09-26-2019 7:12 PM jar has replied

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 Message 258 by jar, posted 09-26-2019 8:57 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 259 of 762 (863518)
09-26-2019 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by jar
09-26-2019 8:57 PM


The cognitive dissonance
Oh goody goody, it's too late there's nothing we can do. I'll just console myself with a quad venti latte, maybe a hot dog from Costco.
And again, why are you complaining to me when there are supposedly millions of you true believers who could have been making all the necessary preparations for decades that you complain haven't been made? Why wait around for Big Carbon to change, there are plenty of things the average person could have been doing and the more doing them the more influence you'd have on the holdouts.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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 Message 260 by jar, posted 09-26-2019 10:14 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 266 of 762 (863534)
09-27-2019 8:10 AM
Reply to: Message 261 by Theodoric
09-27-2019 2:09 AM


Wind and Solar problems.
Wind and solar farms both kill birds. They fly into the turbines and they get fried by the intense heat rising from the solar panels when they fly over them. One of our extinction problems is the bird population. There are other reasons for its decline but there are huge areas of these farms in some places and if they keep adding more of them we'll have a continuing decrease in the bird population.
Other causes I also discussed of the decrease in bird numbers are plate glass windows and housecats. These make enough of a difference to be included in discussions of the problem, though the wind and solar problem isn't getting discussed as it should be. Other causes are loss of habitat which I figure might be mitigated some if we plant more trees, and insecticide use.
I brought this problem up in Message 202 and Message 234. I also suggested that since the heat from the solar farms is intense enough to kill birds it must be putting out a lot of heat into the atmosphere that we certainly don't need if our problem is global warming.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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 Message 261 by Theodoric, posted 09-27-2019 2:09 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by jar, posted 09-27-2019 8:29 AM Faith has replied
 Message 277 by Theodoric, posted 09-27-2019 10:17 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 268 of 762 (863536)
09-27-2019 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 265 by dwise1
09-27-2019 7:56 AM


Re: Find Reality (then throw it away)
If you want to know what one theist thinks I figure atheism is a reasonable default position since we have no way of detecting spiritual entities by the scientific means that are held up as THE way we know anything.
I was sent to church as a kid and more or less believed in God as a result although I really didn't learn much of the theology. At fifteen I met some sophisticated intellectual atheist kids who ridiculed religion, and we were all in a class where the teacher ridiculed religion, so I simply gave up what slender belief I had and became a fairly aggressive atheist for the next thirty years. Until I started reading books on all the religions and ended up a Christian.
Now as a believer I think the complexity of living things ought to show they had to have an intelligent creator, but I didn't have that view as an atheist so I can't expect others to have it.
As for the evolution of the eye, it seems to me that trial and error is the method evolution would have to use to get from one viable form of the eye to another. These different forms are found all over the taxonomic tree and in my view were designed for their particular purpose where they exist. But although it can be seen how one form could have changed in this or that way to turn it into another in a series of growing complexities, there is no way mutations are going to produce the necessary changes in the time frames allotted, and there should be so many failed mutations they'd be uncountable.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : Create paragraph I was sent...
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by dwise1, posted 09-27-2019 7:56 AM dwise1 has replied

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 Message 276 by dwise1, posted 09-27-2019 10:13 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 269 of 762 (863538)
09-27-2019 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 267 by jar
09-27-2019 8:29 AM


Re: Wind and Solar problems.
Why do you assume I got my iformation from the anticlimate change people? I never said that and I don't know the sources. How about YOU go to those farms and count how many dead birds you find?\
And I got the information about how plate glass windows and housecats account for a big decrease in the bird population from a liberal friend I was discussing these things with a few days ago. She looked up an article on the subject and read it to me. The windows and housecats were listed along with the insecticide and loss of habitat, as apparently a large enough cause of the loss of birds to be taken very seriously. Manufacturing changes for window glass are being tried, but the great proliferation of housecats probably needs a media blitz to lessen the problem.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by JoeT, posted 09-27-2019 9:59 AM Faith has replied
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 270 of 762 (863539)
09-27-2019 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 267 by jar
09-27-2019 8:29 AM


Yikes, CATS are the biggest killer of birds
Found the following on a Google search of "Do wind and solar farms kill birds?" . Turns out cell and radio towers are a bigger killer of birds than turbines (though I'd say the turbine deaths will probably increase as wind farms increase), and WOW, CATS KILL BILLIONS, by far the biggest cause of bird deaths. Wow, I guess THAT's where we need to focus bird conservation efforts.
Wind turbines kill between 214,000 and 368,000 birds annually a small fraction compared with the estimated 6.8 million fatalities from collisions with cell and radio towers and the 1.4 billion to 3.7 billion deaths from cats, according to the peer-reviewed study by two federal scientists and the environmental
I then googled solar farms separately. Here's one source.
Yes, birds have died at solar farms most famously at the Ivanpah project in San Bernardino County, where birds have been incinerated as they fly through the "solar flux" reflected by fields of mirrors toward boilers atop three massive towers. But Ivanpah's tower-and-mirror setup is the exception, not the rule. Only two big tower projects have been built in the United States, and it's unclear whether there will be more, in part due to the technology's high costs. Most solar farms use photovoltaic panels like the ones installed on many rooftops, which convert sunlight directly to electricity.
It goes on to say the problem hasn't been studied enough to make any certain assessments.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by Faith, posted 09-27-2019 9:38 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 278 by Theodoric, posted 09-27-2019 10:20 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 271 of 762 (863541)
09-27-2019 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 241 by ringo
09-26-2019 11:47 AM


Re: The solutions could be worse than the problem and nobody is addressing that
I don't often agree with you, but this says it:
It's us versus us.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 272 of 762 (863542)
09-27-2019 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 270 by Faith
09-27-2019 9:17 AM


Re: Yikes, CATS are the biggest killer of birds
So is climate change being blamed for some environmental problems such as the horrific decrease in the bird population, when there are plenty of other manmade causes of such problems?
If housecats are killing birds at such an enormous rate why aren't we getting the alarm about that, and urgent attempts to come up with solutions?
Can the habitat problem be helped by planting more trees? Can the tower collision problem be addressed at all? I didn't know any of this until I started learning about it a few days ago. Birds are too lovable a species to lose.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 275 of 762 (863547)
09-27-2019 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 273 by JoeT
09-27-2019 9:59 AM


Re: Wind and Solar problems.
Me too. Shocking problems we never hear about.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 279 of 762 (863551)
09-27-2019 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 276 by dwise1
09-27-2019 10:13 AM


Re: Find Reality (then throw it away)
I wasn't trying to prove anything to anybody. I was telling you how I arrived at what I think. Take it or leave it. And really Mr. Wise, you have one horrible anger problem.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 280 of 762 (863552)
09-27-2019 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 278 by Theodoric
09-27-2019 10:20 AM


Re: Yikes, CATS are the biggest killer of birds
The information I found, and reported, says they haven't studied it enough to know the impact yet.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 281 of 762 (863553)
09-27-2019 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 277 by Theodoric
09-27-2019 10:17 AM


Re: Wind and Solar problems.
Actually I read on one of my searches that the wind farms kill more birds than the fossil fuels. But I'd have to go look again.
And I wasn't talking about house sized solar panels, I was always and only and exclusively talking about solar FARMS.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 287 of 762 (863576)
09-27-2019 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by AZPaul3
09-27-2019 11:45 AM


Re: The solutions could be worse than the problem and nobody is addressing that
I just can't deal with the big entities like Big Carbon OR Congress. They're all corrupt these days. I hope others have the motivation and the ability to take them on, but mostly what happens is we all just sit and fume about such stuff and aren't able to do anything about it while the whole country goes under.
Speaking of nave, your idea that the Left could do anything but make all this worse and probably bankrupt the country completely is definitely naive. But I sort of like being called "naive sweetheart." It beats "ignorant idiot" any day.
I have to come back to this later.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 304 of 762 (863625)
09-28-2019 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 301 by AZPaul3
09-27-2019 5:47 PM


Re: Climate Trolls Attack: a view from the totalitarian Left
Here's the problem AGAIN. Such a complaint is as good as saying those who disagree with you have no right to their opinion. That does seem to be the general view of the Climate Change contingent, and indeed the Left in general on almost any subject at all. we are not allowed to have a different opinion, we are not allowed even to be wrong, we must be treated like evil stupid people. Such issues are destroying all civility in this nation, no more freedom of speech etc.
So the world is rapidly being destroyed, the human race will probably be among the living things who go extinct, and it's specifically blamed o people who don't agree with the science you treat as perfection itself.
THIS IS TOTALITARIANISM. When you identify any group in such terms you might as well be saying they should be exterminated so the "correct" understanding can prevail. This is Political Correctness to the max. Just because it hasn't YET come to this doesn't mean all the ingredients for it are not in place because they are. Add to this reasoning about supposed "deniers" the emotional speech by a Swedish teenager and we've got it all in place to force dissenters to shut up one way or another. All it takes is a strong belief in their own rightness by people in a position to force their will on others and hear comes a bloody Suppression. So in a few decades perhaps their horrific mistake will be recognized but meanwhile the destruction is beyond repair. No it hasn't happened here YET but your point of view is where it starts. The Communist Chinese leadership is persecuting religious believers and will no doubt soon be murdering the freedom lovers of Hong Kong. THAT is what comes of such views in the hands of the power elite.
I'm very serious. This kind of thinking is dangerous. Identifying those of another opinion who are just living their lives as committing some great evil against you all is dangerous. You have no reason to accuse even Big Carbon of not caring or manipulating things to bring about these horrors you identify. Even if there's something to it this is a dangerous kind of focus to have. Identifying other people as bringing about the destruction of the world, of living things, of humanity itself, can only build a murderous hatred toward such supposed miscreants.
This is why I keep trying to come up with solutions for those who believe as you do that don't cram your beliefs down the throats of the rest of us. And by the way it seems the whole collection of Democratic candidates for the Presidency subscribe to one version or another of cramming their views down the throats of those of a different opinion. Presumably the American Founders were particularly concerned to prevent this very sort of tyranny from occurring here, and I can still hope their thinking may slow it down at least, but it looks to me like the usual forces of tyranny may have found a way to circumvent their work.
I think if I had believed so strongly in the dangers of Climate Change over the last few decades during which you think we should have heeded the alarms, I would have found a way to move north and establish some kind of self-sufficiency for me and my family, made preparations for the most dangerous changes, done my best to persuade others to join me, focused on persuasion rather than accusation, encouraged the next generation to think about how to mitigate the bad effects that are predicted and so on. Why is this not the main way you are all responding to this supposed crisis? Why do you feel the need to make us all bend to your way of thinking?
I agree with you that it looks like we may have a dictatorship in our future, but I think you are completely wrong about who it will be and why.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 306 of 762 (863628)
09-28-2019 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 305 by jar
09-28-2019 10:56 AM


Re: Climate Trolls Attack: a view from the totalitarian Left
That's the thing jar. They are not imposinbg anything on anybody, they are just living their lives. It is the Climate Change people who want to impose their view on the rest of us and treat us as criminals for merely disagreeing with you. And no we do not even have a right to be stupid. That's the whole point I'm making.
"Climate trolls?" You mean vermin like the Jews in Hitler's germany?
"Attack?" Trying to get their opinion in edgewise? Nothing could more clearly demonstrate the view that there is only one allowable opinion here and those who oppose it, or resist it, or doubt it, are evil trolls.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by jar, posted 09-28-2019 10:56 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 307 by jar, posted 09-28-2019 11:36 AM Faith has replied
 Message 310 by ringo, posted 09-28-2019 12:16 PM Faith has replied
 Message 317 by AZPaul3, posted 09-28-2019 12:40 PM Faith has replied

  
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