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Author Topic:   Jesus Among Secular Gods
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 62 of 94 (863832)
10-01-2019 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Phat
10-01-2019 3:18 PM


Re: what jar has said.
Phat writes:
Do you agree that GOD is good, or do you continue to assert the belief that GOD is complete?
I'm not sure that has any meaning Phat. My belief is that Good and Bad are strictly constructs created by living things; in our case other humans.
Also, I'm not sure how a God could be incomplete.
Phat writes:
Is the God of Judaism any different than the God of Christianity?
Again that just seems like really basic stuff Phat.
Judaism denies that God can have an offspring, son, ghost or be more than a single individual. Trinitarian Christianity claims God has a son and there is some third party called Spirit.
Major differences.
In addition there is no such thing as "The God of Judaism" or "The God of Christianity". Both religions have a whole range of beliefs about what God is or what God is like.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Phat, posted 10-01-2019 3:18 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 65 of 94 (863957)
10-03-2019 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Phat
10-03-2019 2:34 PM


Re: what jar has said.
That's all just word salad and offers absolutely no reason to think it has any content whatsoever.
qs=GDRIf we use God as embodied by Jesus as the lens we can then read through the 66 different books that make up the Bible and understand where the writers got it wrong and where they got it more or less right. [/qs]
That just means we can pick those things we agree with and create both Jesus and God in our own image.
We can choose things to justify or beliefs and the Bible is as good a place to find such things as the Qu'ran or Aesop's Fables.
But that still leaves Jesus as yet another human creation that reflects the God we create.
But in the end, I believe we will be judged based on our behavior.
Edited by AdminPhat, : fixed broken quote
Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Phat, posted 10-03-2019 2:34 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by GDR, posted 10-04-2019 11:42 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 68 of 94 (863985)
10-04-2019 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by GDR
10-04-2019 11:42 AM


Re: what jar has said.
GDR writes:
From your POV that makes sense as, from what you have said before, you don't believe that God resurrected Jesus.
But I do believe that God not just resurrected Jesus (that is a fairly common theme in many religions) but the he Ascended in to Heaven and will come again to judge the living and the dead.
That still doesn't tell us anything about GOD.
GDR writes:
Will my behaviour be judged on the same basis as someone who grew up being physically and mentally abused?
No one knows.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by GDR, posted 10-04-2019 11:42 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by GDR, posted 10-04-2019 5:48 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 71 of 94 (863990)
10-04-2019 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by GDR
10-04-2019 5:48 PM


Re: what jar has said.
GDR writes:
I'm curious as to what you mean by resurrection. Are you talking about a "Jesus Seminar" understanding, where it is a metaphor or possibly some kind of vision, or was the resurrected Jesus present physically in that He BBQ'd fish and could be touched?
My belief is a physical resurrection. But again it is only a personal belief and I don't think it's a significant or relevant point when it comes to living.
GDR writes:
Of course it would. If God resurrected Jesus then that is an affirmation of Jesus' life and message, so when we see what Jesus says about God it has considerable credibility
But again, there are many examples of someone being resurrected in the Bible so I don't see how that says anything about God.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by GDR, posted 10-04-2019 5:48 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by GDR, posted 10-04-2019 8:04 PM jar has not replied
 Message 73 by Phat, posted 10-04-2019 9:54 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 74 of 94 (863994)
10-04-2019 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by Phat
10-04-2019 9:54 PM


Re: what jar has said.
Phat writes:
I emphasize Communion eternally and the power of His Resurrection.
Okay, but why? What does that even mean? Why can't anyone explain how some communion is even possible or how to know who or what you are communioning with?
Phat writes:
What does the Nicene Creed say about the relationship between GOD and His Son (human character)?
Nothing actually.
Phat writes:
What I'm trying to get you to do is to step off your critical thinking unbiased observation point and make a choice about whether belief in and trust in Jesus (Gods Character) is relevant for today.
More word salad Phat. What does "belief in and trust in Jesus (Gods Character)" even mean? How would it once someone can explain what it is be relevant for today?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Phat, posted 10-04-2019 9:54 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 77 of 94 (864013)
10-05-2019 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Phat
10-05-2019 12:58 AM


Re: Mr. Bigshot. Who do you think you are?
Phat writes:
Do you believe that He has absolute power?
Do I believe that Jesus will be the individual judging me after I die? Is that the question?
Or are you asking if I believe a GOD has absolute power?
Phat writes:
Who do *you* say that I am?
You always duck and dodge this one, preferring to teach the Bible from a neutral and objectively independent standpoint.
Try to learn to read and then actually remember what you have read.
Have I ever posted that I agree with the Nicene Creed?
Are you aware of how it begins? What are the first two words of the Nicene Creed?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Phat, posted 10-05-2019 12:58 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Phat, posted 10-05-2019 9:00 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 79 of 94 (864015)
10-05-2019 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Phat
10-05-2019 9:00 AM


Re: Mr. Bigshot. Who do you think you are?
LOL
Anglicans and Episcopalians ARE Protestants Phat.
Phat writes:
So a question to ask you is this: What is the difference between a Biblical Christian (by your definition the CCoI) and a modern-day Anglican,(we used to discuss John Shelby Spong if I recall correctly) and/or Episcopalian Christian.
They are different chapters of Club Christian.
Phat writes:
You are nothing more than a secular humanist who is not religious nor has any belief in a higher power yet who feeds the poor, thinks of others before himself, and is unchanged except through his daily actions.
Why would anyone strive to be more than a secular humanist who is not religious nor has any belief in a higher power yet who feeds the poor, thinks of others before himself, and is unchanged except through his daily actions?
I do not want to be more than any other person, only more than I was yesterday.
Phat writes:
To me, it makes no sense to simply save everybody right off the bat and then expect them to have to earn credit through what they do versus what they could have done. How would anyone know they had worked hard enough or done enough? It would cause anxiety in life...forever wondering whether to spend money on a Starbucks latte or give it away to yet another homeless person begging outside of the supermarket.
As I have repeatedly said, marketing the "Get Outta Hell Card" is a great product that is legal and carries no product liability.
If you know I subscribe to the Nicene Creed and what the first two words of the Nicene Creed happen to say, why are you asking me what I believe?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Phat, posted 10-05-2019 9:00 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Phat, posted 10-05-2019 12:02 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 81 of 94 (864019)
10-05-2019 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Phat
10-05-2019 12:02 PM


Re: Who Does jar say that I AM? (A Character in a book?)
Phat writes:
Because I find it amazing that for all the times you have read the Bible, you get something different out of it that the apologists, some of whom I respect, can't find.
The difference Phat is that I am honest about what is actually in the Bible while the Apologists make stuff up to make the Bible wsay what they want it to say rather than be honest and admit it actually says what is written.
They are Apologists; people whose sole profession is to find ways to apologize for the fact that the Bible says what is actually written rather than what their fantasy demands.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Phat, posted 10-05-2019 12:02 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Phat, posted 10-05-2019 2:36 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 83 of 94 (864034)
10-05-2019 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Phat
10-05-2019 2:36 PM


Re: No True Apologists Fallacy
Phat writes:
What criticism do you, whose mother was Jewish, have concerning Paul's apologetics concerning the hardening of Israel's heart?
Jesus mother was Jewish, my mother was a Presbyterian.
Phat writes:
You are essentially claiming that our gun-toting Eisenhower conservative ( Jay from Deep South Texas )is as honest as the day is long in regards to reporting and defending what the Bible actually literally says while the whole mess of Apologists which I just googled a bunch of their names are liars defending a fantasy.
Phat, Phat, Phat. When have I ever interpreted what the Bible says? I try very hard NOT to interpret and instead say "Look, here is what is actually written. Don't believe what I say, go read what is actually written."

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Phat, posted 10-05-2019 2:36 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Phat, posted 10-05-2019 3:06 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 86 of 94 (864038)
10-05-2019 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Phat
10-05-2019 3:06 PM


Re: No True Apologists Fallacy
What's there to puzzle you? You can check anything I say simply by going a reading what is actually written in the Bible stories or Creeds.
Phat writes:
I cant see a whole religion lying to itself.
Does the Book of the Dead exist? Were their several religions that were convinced and in fact implemented the provision outlined in the Book of the Dead? Were there not Priests that taught the actuality of the need to have an intact body in the afterlife?
Do the Vedas exist? Is there not a whole religion based on the stories in the Vedas being actual accounts of what has and will happens?
Does the Glorious Qu'ran exist? Are there not several religions based on the stories in the Qu'ran being actual accounts of what has and will happens?
Religions often grow based on marketing and coercion; either "Belong to this religion or you cannot get a job" or "Belong to this religion or die" or "Belong to this religion and you will get saved" or "Belong to this religion and get wealthy".
FUD (Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt) were not developed by NCR & IBM.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Phat, posted 10-05-2019 3:06 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Phat, posted 10-06-2019 2:48 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 92 of 94 (864090)
10-06-2019 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Phat
10-06-2019 2:48 PM


Re: No True Apologists Fallacy
Phat writes:
And your point? Is this an excuse not to belong to one? Ask yourself if you are skeptical of human nature in general or of Biblical Christians and Apologists specifically. Then ask yourself what you dislike and why and how your criticism was founded.
The point is that all religions, including Christianity grow based on marketing.
What I dislike are basic coman tactics; a great example is the whol group of cults that are swayed by total falsehoods like the Chicago Statement of Faith. What I dislike is someone telling me the Bible actually means something other than what is written. What I dislike is marketing of Salvation when there is absolutely no possible way anyone can honestly claim to be saved.
Phat writes:
The question is really simple. Does Jesus exist?
No, that is not the question it's a bumper sticker slogan. First tell me how someone determines if the supernatural exists or how that might be tested. The question is not simple.
Phat writes:
If you can call yourself a Christian and yet say that humans can learn from the stories and to throw God away, I suggest that you are lying. To yourself.
You, of course, are free to believe any such nonsense that makes you feel all warm and gushy, but it just sophomoric.
Phat writes:
What is dishonest is telling yourself that you know. It is, in my opinion, also dishonest to call yourself a Christian and yet not know if GOD exists.
Sheesh, did you actually read what you wrote?
Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Phat, posted 10-06-2019 2:48 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Phat, posted 10-07-2019 4:38 AM jar has not replied

  
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