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Author Topic:   Is The World Getting Better Or Worse?
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4731
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 496 of 762 (864040)
10-05-2019 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 493 by Faith
10-05-2019 12:37 PM


Re: Which is the real AZ?
ask that you be able to tolerate my occasional emotional jags

I shall do my best, M'Lady.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 493 by Faith, posted 10-05-2019 12:37 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33661
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


(1)
Message 497 of 762 (864043)
10-05-2019 7:32 PM


Sorry, just not able to be certain about it
Tried looking at links way back there and find most of it too hard on my eyes to do more than a quick skim, and when I see the usual chart with the right side way up there beyond the trend of the rest of the measurements I just feel bamboozled. Also looking at YouTube and may yet find more there. But when searching for the skeptics on You Tube mostly all I found was the criticisms OF the skeptics. Pretty sleazy it seems to me, totally dishonest. My trust in the world -- news, science, politics, experts, pundits --, has plummeted in recent years. Way it goes.

So the science is good, but what about the reports of the science? According to some certain sources are ignored, contrary views are ignored, and the political drive for climate change is very scary to a conservative, globalism, one world order. That alone makes the subject suspect to me.

I cannot judge any of this stuff but I rather resent being called a moron when there are so many out there who find fault with the scientific judgment it seems reasonable to consider that they might have something to say. Assessments of the causes of warming do differ for instance, so much of it having begun in the distant past that couldn't have been influenced by people for instance, different assessments of how much CO2 causes how much warming and so on.

Again, not that the science itself is wrong in any given study, but that there are different studies that show different effects. I'm not in a position to judge any of this but there is enough sheer pressure, urgent alarmist tone, calling opponents morons and selfish and so on, pressure to agree with the supposed science on the basis of authority alone and so on to keep me in the skeptic's camp.

It's the tone, the attitude, the political pressure that demeans the USA and favors tyrants in the rest of the world, the sneering contempt, the arm-flapping hysteria designed to intimidate others -- all that causes me to dig in ny heels. Also the pronouncements by average people in agreement with that side of it, who cannot possibly be in any position to judge it independently just as I am not, have the same sneering alarmist certainty anyway: why, I guess because it is Sciience and as far as it goes seems to hold together, and any suspicion that it leaves out important info is dismissed.

Moron I have to be it seems.

Whatever happens in the end, whether the skeptics prevent the sweeping measures the other side wants, or the globalists take over and force it on us at gunpoint, it's all going to happen from political motives, not any kind of rational basis.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 498 by Faith, posted 10-06-2019 7:49 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33661
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 498 of 762 (864096)
10-06-2019 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 497 by Faith
10-05-2019 7:32 PM


Re: Sorry, just not able to be certain about it
Heard a radio talk on climate change by one of my favorite Christian teachers, documentary film maker Chris Pinto, who has a radio program mostly on political topics that I hadn't listened to in a LONG time, maybe as long as two years, although I used to listen frequently. Anyway I got an email from his ministry today mentioning that one of his most recent radio talks is on global warming: "Deceiving and Being Deceived." I copied out the URL but it doesn't work as I thought it probably wouldn't. Oh well.

He puts up the clip of Greta Thunberg, then Leonard Nimoy on the subject of the certainty of a coming ice age from back in 1979, then something from Leonardo DiCaprio at the UN and something from the first Earth Day in 1970. At the end he gets into the many failed predictions over the last few decades.

Mentions how all the climate change spokespeople travel in hugely expensive and carbon-spewing modes of transportation to their conferences and speeches on how the rest of us need to sacrifice our own carbon-emitting cars and other things. Yes, wouldn't you think the True Believers would at least try to set a good example if they are going to ask such a sacrifice of us?

And he emphasizes what I emphasize: this is a political totalitarian move to bring us all under a tyrannical One World Government in which the US is demoted to the level of third world.

The science really isn't very persuasive in such a context I'm afraid. Even if the more recent calculations are something we should take note of, the political environment makes it all untrustworthy. We already do a lot, the rest of the world does not, and we really would be crazy to submit to anything any of them has to say.

s3.media.squarespace.com/production/827989/9727427/GLOBAL.WARMING.ICE.AGE_10.03.2019.mp3?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAIGASFZJDTI4L3CAA&Signature=bKeWj3pGI%2Bqr98cXx5Wp%2FQC7eiY%3D&Expires=15 70403500

I can't get that one to go anywhere, but maybe this one will go to the list of programs:

http://www.noiseofthunderradio.com/...ng-deceived-10319.html

If all else fails, the radio talk is at Noise of Thunder Radio.com.

Yeah I love you madly AZ but you're pushing a dangerous line here.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 497 by Faith, posted 10-05-2019 7:32 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 499 by AZPaul3, posted 10-06-2019 10:49 PM Faith has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4731
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(2)
Message 499 of 762 (864109)
10-06-2019 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 498 by Faith
10-06-2019 7:49 PM


Re: Sorry, just not able to be certain about it
I am not influenced or concerned by the musings of a religious nutcase who thinks the founding fathers were demons in league with jesuits and masons. And I have no patience with celebrities pushing scenarios not supported by the science.

As far as my "dangerous line" goes the science is clear. The global temperatures are rising to unprecedented levels not seen by our species ever, our oceans are heating up even more then the atmosphere with sea levels that will flood all the world's coastal areas by the end of the century and even worse beyond, weather systems are being disrupted with ever more powerful storms, droughts and floods, our ecosystems are in danger of widespread collapse in the next 200 years with extinction level die offs over the next 500 years putting our own viability on this planet in jeopardy in this next few millennia.

No one can show where this science is in error. The vast majority of climate science specialists the world over helped define and form this consensus. The opposition is without any scientific foundation but consists entirely of political rhetoric and industrial deception.

The "dangerous line" is the one we have drawn on our own continued existence.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 498 by Faith, posted 10-06-2019 7:49 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 500 by Faith, posted 10-07-2019 9:38 AM AZPaul3 has responded
 Message 501 by Faith, posted 10-07-2019 10:06 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33661
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 500 of 762 (864137)
10-07-2019 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 499 by AZPaul3
10-06-2019 10:49 PM


Re: Sorry, just not able to be certain about it
All the predictions have been wrong so far, no matter how reliable the science has seemed to be, and it's apparently pretty reliable these days according to you and others. No matter how good it is it's the unwavering record of failed predictions and the political aspect of it that makes it suspect. The US is supposed to get railroaded into giving up our sovereignty and freedom to third world tyrants because of the emotional speech of a teenage girl who has been brainwashed by unscrupulous adults, and the namecalling of science nuts like yourself. We're doing what we can, go harass the rest of the world.

I assume you are characterizing Chris Pinto in your opening sentence? Got it off some wacko website I suppose. You can see some of his documentaries at You Tube. That might be a better source of information about his point of view.

And I wouldn't call his radio talk "musiings." He plays audio clips of the people he refers to.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 499 by AZPaul3, posted 10-06-2019 10:49 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 502 by AZPaul3, posted 10-07-2019 11:19 AM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33661
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 501 of 762 (864142)
10-07-2019 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 499 by AZPaul3
10-06-2019 10:49 PM


Re: Sorry, just not able to be certain about it
As far as my "dangerous line" goes the science is clear. The global temperatures are rising to unprecedented levels not seen by our species ever, our oceans are heating up even more then the atmosphere with sea levels that will flood all the world's coastal areas by the end of the century and even worse beyond, weather systems are being disrupted with ever more powerful storms, droughts and floods, our ecosystems are in danger of widespread collapse in the next 200 years with extinction level die offs over the next 500 years putting our own viability on this planet in jeopardy in this next few millennia.

At least you give a more reasonable time frame than the failed predictions of similar disasters have given. So there's time to try to do something. Go for it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 499 by AZPaul3, posted 10-06-2019 10:49 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 503 by AZPaul3, posted 10-07-2019 11:30 AM Faith has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4731
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 502 of 762 (864151)
10-07-2019 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 500 by Faith
10-07-2019 9:38 AM


Re: Sorry, just not able to be certain about it
The US is supposed to get railroaded into giving up our sovereignty and freedom to third world tyrants ...

What are you talking about?

I see no proposals to give up any sovereignty and freedom to anyone.

I do see proposals that the USofA participate in discussions at world meetings which we no longer do. Is that giving up sovereignty in the alt-right mind?

We are a world leader, or at least used to be, and as one of the biggest polluters, we could/should set an example for the rest of the world in setting policies and standards. Is that giving up freedom in the alt-right mind?

Is cooperating with the rest of this planet, indeed being a major force in setting the world agenda, leading the charge to salvation ... is that somehow seen as surrender?

You listen to too many Nazis.

I assume you are characterizing Chris Pinto in your opening sentence? Got it off some wacko website I suppose.

Yeah. The wacko site was his own video "The Hidden Faith of Our Founding Fathers." He's a twisted hate-filled religious nutjob. Apparently just the kind of preacher you like.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 500 by Faith, posted 10-07-2019 9:38 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 504 by Faith, posted 10-07-2019 3:27 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 514 by Faith, posted 10-08-2019 1:38 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4731
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 503 of 762 (864152)
10-07-2019 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 501 by Faith
10-07-2019 10:06 AM


Re: Sorry, just not able to be certain about it
So there's time to try to do something.

You haven't been paying attention.

It's already too late for a lot of the disaster to come. It's already front-loaded into our ecosystem and there is nothing ... nothing ... we can do to stop it. The sea level flooding, badder storms, drought, famine and dislocations are all going to take place in the next 100++ years and there is nothing ... nothing ... we can do to stop it.

What we are talking about is trying to keep the deep future extinctions of our ecosystems and ourselves from happening and to do that we have to act now ... today ... we don't have time any more. We have squandered what time we had playing politics with our existence and we are about to lose.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 501 by Faith, posted 10-07-2019 10:06 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 505 by Faith, posted 10-07-2019 3:30 PM AZPaul3 has responded
 Message 508 by Faith, posted 10-07-2019 3:45 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33661
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 504 of 762 (864173)
10-07-2019 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 502 by AZPaul3
10-07-2019 11:19 AM


Re: Sorry, just not able to be certain about it
You actually watched "Hidden Faith of the Founding Fathers?" I'm surprised if so, he never makes a film that's less than three hours long. I was thinking of watching it again myself. He's good at mustering his evidence. I was shocked at first at what he supposedly concluded about the founders but as I recall he did a good job of proving it. Then because so many Christians complained that he made it sound as if America had no Christian foundations at all he did another film to show its Christian roots apart from the Founders. I don't think it's out yet.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 502 by AZPaul3, posted 10-07-2019 11:19 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33661
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 505 of 762 (864174)
10-07-2019 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 503 by AZPaul3
10-07-2019 11:30 AM


Re: Sorry, just not able to be certain about it
OK we're doomed. Now, why aren't we all seeking ways of surviving the supposedly inevitable changes you predict? Flood, famine, etc? We can adapt, even save the animals too if we put our minds to it. We don't need to shut down all industry. Sure, I guess we should talk to the rest of the world about it, but if you haven't heard how their solution is the US shutting down all of OUR industry I don't know why not. Not THEM, us.

Oh, and what about AOCs threat that it's going to be all over in a dozen years and we have to do away with absolutely everything that's carbon-driven?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 503 by AZPaul3, posted 10-07-2019 11:30 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 506 by jar, posted 10-07-2019 3:35 PM Faith has responded
 Message 511 by AZPaul3, posted 10-07-2019 4:32 PM Faith has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31612
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 506 of 762 (864176)
10-07-2019 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 505 by Faith
10-07-2019 3:30 PM


Re: Sorry, just not able to be certain about it
Faith writes:

Now, why aren't we all seeking ways of surviving the supposedly inevitable changes you predict?

Because folk like you continue to elect Representatives that are anti-science and pro immediate profit. Remember, they will all be rich enough to avoid most of the discomfort over the next half century.

When Mar-a-Lago is under water it only means a profitable insurance claim for Trump and loss of homes and income and health insurance and a living for everyone working there or dependent on it.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 505 by Faith, posted 10-07-2019 3:30 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 507 by Faith, posted 10-07-2019 3:38 PM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33661
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 507 of 762 (864177)
10-07-2019 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 506 by jar
10-07-2019 3:35 PM


Re: Sorry, just not able to be certain about it
Funny, even in the video AZ posted way back there explaining the causes of global warming, the guy said we aren't going to get major flooding, the oceans are too huge.

There must be enough people who believe in the coming disasters who would support measures to survive and adapt. Capitalism is inventive that way. Create with those needs in mind.

However, even if we did shut down all the human causes of global warming it's going to happen eventually anyway, right? And if we shut them all down we'll all freeze to death in the winter, have to do without electricity and so on and might as well be dead anyway. Or WILL be dead anyway. Yes I'm exaggerating but the principle is true enough.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 506 by jar, posted 10-07-2019 3:35 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 509 by jar, posted 10-07-2019 3:47 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 510 by Faith, posted 10-07-2019 3:51 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 512 by AZPaul3, posted 10-07-2019 4:52 PM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33661
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 508 of 762 (864180)
10-07-2019 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 503 by AZPaul3
10-07-2019 11:30 AM


Re: Sorry, just not able to be certain about it
You're so cute when you're acting all panicky.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 503 by AZPaul3, posted 10-07-2019 11:30 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31612
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 509 of 762 (864181)
10-07-2019 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 507 by Faith
10-07-2019 3:38 PM


Re: Sorry, just not able to be certain about it
Faith writes:

And if we shut them all down we'll all freeze to death in the winter, have to do without electricity and so on and might as well be dead anyway.

Only the fools and the poor will have to do without electricity. The poor are a truth that should shame us. The fools will get what they wanted.

The rich will do just fine at least as long as they want.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 507 by Faith, posted 10-07-2019 3:38 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33661
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 510 of 762 (864182)
10-07-2019 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 507 by Faith
10-07-2019 3:38 PM


Re: Sorry, just not able to be certain about it
I don't know if it's too late. Since I believe the West, the US in particular, have been under God's judgment for a few decades now, severe environmental disasters would fit right in. I also know that if the churches got their act together, threw out the heretics, repented of their errors and so on, and then all got down on our knees and prayed for God's mercy about all this, THAT would save the planet. If it's not too late and we've gone beyond God's patience.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 507 by Faith, posted 10-07-2019 3:38 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
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