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Author | Topic: Is The World Getting Better Or Worse? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Secret Societies tend to believe a lot of things that aren’t true.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: I am talking about your blog post, of course, if you choose to be stupid that is your problem. And no, my post is not simply opinion. It is a fact that your quotes of Burgon lack any real substantive argument. Most of them amount to mere name calling. It also should be quite clear why a consensus of experts has more value than the opinion of an outlier.
quote: Indeed I am providing more substance - and far less namecalling -than your entire blog post.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
I dont think that there is anything hard to understand.
To repeat the main point, your post is mainly quoting opinion,with very little value. I go on to explain why that opinion has very little value. That is neither hard to understand, nor in any way unfair (in fact it’s generous).
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Let’s see. What about the alleged anti-Christian quotes attribute to Adams and Washington ? Does Pinto produce the actual writings of either man to substantiate his accusation ? If so identify the writings.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Really ? Because I’ve heard that Pinto uses Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli for George Washington. Which isn’t anti-Christian and wasn’t written by George Washington.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Someone else says that Washington wrote it is hardly convincing evidence.
quote: Well I haven’t seen anyone trying to pretend any such thing, and it would be absurd to say that there were no Christians in the Senate!
quote: And therefore Christians are required to go to war to suppress all other religions ? Is that it ? Because I don’t see any other connection between your assertion and the text.
Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. quote: Article 11 says no such thing.
quote: That’s not syncretic worship, that’s just sharing a facility. And if Christians don’t want to share they can choose not to use it.
quote: I don’t think so. And please don’t introduce verses describing the Jewish Temple to prove it.
quote: Not giving Christians special privileges is not anti-Christian bias
quote: Like I said, you want to destroy liberty. Thanks for admitting it. Again. Edited by PaulK, : No reason given. Edited by PaulK, : Fixed quote
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: The Article is saying that there won’t be a religious war. If you object to that you must be in favour of a religious war.
quote: And the Article does no such thing. Read it. I quoted it for you.
quote: Then you shouldn’t go around implying that it must.
quote: Certainly not. The point at issue is whether Chris Pinto told the truth when he claimed that Washington made anti-Christian statements. And according to you, not only does he quote a text which cannot be attributed to Washington, he grossly misrepresents it, too. So much for Pinto’s research.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Obviously the truth hurts.
quote: Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli says that the USA will not launch a religious war against Muslims. You call Article 11 anti-Christian on the grounds that worship of other Gods is forbidden. Try putting two and two together.
quote: That’s untrue. How was I supposed to know that you have some ridiculous notion that Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli promotes syncretic worship ?
quote: Then stop lying, rather than running away.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
So, let us note. According to you Pinto claims that Washington wrote Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli (because someone else said so).
Also according to you, he claims that the Article somehow promotes syncretic religion. Here’s the Article again:
Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. I think we can all see that the claim you attribute to Pinto is completely false. So much for the claim that he quotes them all directly.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Pinto identifies Adams as a Unitarian. However Adams only became a Unitarian in retirement Wikipedia
Check the dates on the quotes Pinto provides. They are all from 1813 or later.. How can they be trusted to convey the views Adams possessed more than 20 years earlier ? Pinto puts forward the Treaty of Tripoli as evidence that the US was not intended to be a theocratic state but no more. Your assertions that it promoted syncretism are your invention, not Pinto’s. (And you owe him an apology for suggesting that he told such an obvious lie) I do not find the idea that Christians would protest Article 11 of the Treaty at all convincing. Aside from the fact that Christianity does not require theocracy, the main point of the Article is that there would be no religious conflict. Why would people who wanted peace object to that ? As for Moncure, he does not seem to have been a historian. The text referred to dates from 1901. Moncure does not explicitly claim that Washington wrote Article 11 - he claims that the text of Article 11 is the opening of the Treaty. Which is obviously untrue since Articles 1-10 must precede it. More, so far as I can tell - based on the page number and contents of the book - it seems that the text came from an article arguing that exhibitions should be permitted to open on Sunday(!). I wonder why Pinto doesn’t mention that? As I have already argued that Washington was - at the least - not an orthodox Christian I don’t care about that. I care only about the assertion that his own statements prove that he was opposed to Christianity.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Do you have any evidence of Adams expressing any hostility to Christianity while - or before - the Constitution was being thrashed out. I’ll give you up to the ratification of the Bill of Rights (1791)
quote: That’s hardly anti-Christian as it stands. Indeed, if you look at the actual quote he says that he indulges the Christians because he is no bigot to any mode of worship. I.e. he is NOT prejudiced against Christian preachers. Your phrasing is a misrepresentation. Edited by PaulK, : Added final paragraph after viewing video.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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quote: More accurately, you trust people who say things you like, even if they are usually lying. And you usually manage to get what they say wrong, anyway.
quote: The Right has turned into a Satanic cult and Creationism was likely one from the start. It’s not surprising that they are similar.
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