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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House The Trump Presidency

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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
Taq
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Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 3326 of 4573 (863482)
09-26-2019 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 3324 by Percy
09-26-2019 7:04 AM


Re: A Former Judge Explains Why Trump Committed a Crime
Percy writes:
A column by former judge and now columnist Andrew Napolitano appeared at Fox News (In Ukraine call, Trump apparently personally and directly committed a crime) explaining why strong-arming a foreign government to do your campaign opposition research is a crime.
Republicans don't seem to understand the gravity of this situation. They were out in droves criticizing Democrats for starting an impeachment inquiry before reading the transcript of the call. What they can't seem to understand is that what Trump had already admitted to saying is an impeachable offense, as Napolitano correctly states. There doesn't need to be an explicit quid pro quo request since asking for dirt on a political opponent is a crime in itself. Making the request while withholding foreign aid is even worse since it is extremely unethical even in the absence of an explicit quid pro quo request.
The impeachment inquiry was needed to see just how deep this goes. The fact that the White House appears to have been part of a potential cover-up is going to make this even worse for them. If this happens to be a one-off request then maybe Trump can get off the hook by apologizing and showing some sort of contrition. However, if this turns out to be just one part of an entire campaign to get dirt on Bid through Ukranian sources then Trump is in some very hot water.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3324 by Percy, posted 09-26-2019 7:04 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 3330 of 4573 (863495)
09-26-2019 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 3329 by JonF
09-26-2019 2:58 PM


Re: The whistleblower's complaint
JonF writes:
And maybe others, like whoever moved the "transcript" from the ready-to-circulate server to the extra-sensitive-classified server.
To be more precise, whomever ordered the transcript to be put on that server might be in trouble. I doubt lower level intelligence officers are going to get in trouble for following orders.
If the cover-up is true, it blows a hole in their current defense that they did nothing wrong. Be prepared to hear the phrase "consciousness of guilt" repeated multiple times during your evening news broadcasts. If you think you did nothing wrong then you don't try to hide the evidence. Basic logic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3329 by JonF, posted 09-26-2019 2:58 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3332 by JonF, posted 09-26-2019 3:40 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 3340 of 4573 (863564)
09-27-2019 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 3339 by Theodoric
09-27-2019 11:01 AM


Re: The whistleblower's complaint
Theodoric writes:
There will be a myriad of state charges that are unpardonable. Trump's only option would to declare himself President for Life. At this moment this is not something we should think he is incapable of trying.
Trump's legal team has been arguing in court that a sitting President can't even be criminally investigated. Now Trump is saying that Congress can't investigate him either because that would be unamerican and treasonous.
At this point, you really have to ask yourself if Trump has a basic understanding ethics and morality. Does he even know when he is doing something wrong? We had the whole Mueller investigation into whether the Trump campaign solicited Russia for dirt they could use in the election. The day after the report came out clearing Trump of colluding with Russia he turns around and colludes with Ukraine as if it wasn't a big deal. Does he even understand what the whole Russia investigation was about? Does he understand why it is a bad thing to solicit another country to interfere in our democratic process?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3339 by Theodoric, posted 09-27-2019 11:01 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3341 by jar, posted 09-27-2019 12:02 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 3342 by Theodoric, posted 09-27-2019 3:06 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 3355 of 4573 (863804)
09-30-2019 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 3354 by JonF
09-30-2019 4:15 PM


JonF writes:
‘Retaliation in plain sight’: Legal experts stunned by Trump admitting he’s trying to uncover whistleblower ID
Dems now have the option of adding witness intimidation to the articles of impeachment.
Prophesies of Trump self-impeaching are coming true. He's doing it right out in public.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3354 by JonF, posted 09-30-2019 4:15 PM JonF has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 3359 of 4573 (863865)
10-02-2019 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 3358 by vimesey
10-02-2019 9:43 AM


Re: On a weird note...
vimesey writes:
We could lend you James Bond....
That would be a great idea. At this point, we would be happy with Timothy Dalton.
However, I think our own Impossible Mission Force has already helped us out. Apparently, one of their agents put on a Trump mask and admitted to impeachable offenses.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3358 by vimesey, posted 10-02-2019 9:43 AM vimesey has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 3362 of 4573 (863888)
10-02-2019 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 3361 by ringo
10-02-2019 3:09 PM


Re: On a weird note...
ringo writes:
I fully expect to wake up tomorrow morning and tell people, "You wouldn't believe the dream I had last night - Donald Trump was elected President.... Stop laughing.... Stop laughing...."
"Ok, I'll stop laughing. I had a similar dream that Boris Johnson was elected Prime Minister . . . stop laughing . . . stop laughing . . ."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3361 by ringo, posted 10-02-2019 3:09 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 3389 of 4573 (864275)
10-09-2019 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 3380 by ICANT
10-08-2019 9:57 PM


Re: Rolled?
ICANT writes:
What matters is our soldiers are still alive.
It's hard to recruit allies when you are willing to abandon them in order to save your own troops. In case you forgot, the US used to consider itself courageous. I guess that has changed with this new president.
I wonder what 50 soldiers could do against an invading army with tanks and heavy artillery.
It would prevent those armies and tanks from firing at the Kurdish army to begin with because killing US troops has dire consequences.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3380 by ICANT, posted 10-08-2019 9:57 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3396 by ICANT, posted 10-10-2019 12:28 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(3)
Message 3390 of 4573 (864276)
10-09-2019 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 3384 by ICANT
10-09-2019 10:40 AM


Re: Rolled?
ICANT writes:
When did we take the mission of solving the war that has been going on between the kurds and turkey since 1984?
The moment we took them on as allies. It saddens me that this has to be explained to you.
Turkey wants their border to be safe and have a 20 mile wide safe zone in which settlements would be created for the millions of Syrians that are living in Turkey now.
Hitler said something similar to Neville Chamberlain.
Turkey has wanted to wipe out the Kurds for a long time. This isn't about a safe zone. This is about attacking the Kurds. If they want a safe zone, then they should build one in their own country.
Since I do not have the facts I can not choose a position. The only thing I can say is it is a local problem and they should work out their own future. It is not for us to force our will on others when we are so divided in our relations with one another.
It seems that you also forgot that the US used to be a leader in the world.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3384 by ICANT, posted 10-09-2019 10:40 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3391 by JonF, posted 10-09-2019 3:37 PM Taq has replied
 Message 3393 by jar, posted 10-09-2019 4:37 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 3398 by ICANT, posted 10-10-2019 12:47 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 3392 of 4573 (864284)
10-09-2019 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 3391 by JonF
10-09-2019 3:37 PM


Re: Rolled?
JonF writes:
Yeah, used to be a world leader
It saddens me to agree with you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3391 by JonF, posted 10-09-2019 3:37 PM JonF has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 3399 of 4573 (864323)
10-10-2019 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 3396 by ICANT
10-10-2019 12:28 PM


Re: Rolled?
ICANT writes:
So you vote we go to war with Turkey and the rest of Nato.
If the troops were kept where they were we wouldn't need to consider that option.
Why is this so difficult for you to understand?
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3396 by ICANT, posted 10-10-2019 12:28 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 3400 of 4573 (864324)
10-10-2019 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 3398 by ICANT
10-10-2019 12:47 PM


Re: Rolled?
ICANT writes:
How about explaining to me when we ceased being allies of Turkey who we are committed to defend.
We are their allies, so we would defend them from a Kurdish invasion. The Kurds are also our allies, so they would not invade Turkey.
Why should they build a safe zone in Turkey to build settlements in which to house 2 million+ Syrians that are refugees in Turkey?
That is what a good government and good neighbor would do.
But in the last 50 years we have ceased to be leaders and become a bully that has been trying to force our views on other countries.
Were we forcing our views on the Kurds? Do you disagree with the Kurdish led and US supported war on ISIS?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3398 by ICANT, posted 10-10-2019 12:47 PM ICANT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3406 by jar, posted 10-10-2019 1:54 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 3407 of 4573 (864345)
10-10-2019 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 3404 by JonF
10-10-2019 1:21 PM


Re: Rolled?
JonF writes:
Do you unquestioningly support any decision that Turkey makes?
You misspelled "Trump".
The Cult of Trump is shocking to watch. It strips people of any moral or ethical sense, just as all good cults do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3404 by JonF, posted 10-10-2019 1:21 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3409 by JonF, posted 10-10-2019 3:57 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 3408 of 4573 (864346)
10-10-2019 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 3406 by jar
10-10-2019 1:54 PM


Re: Rolled?
jar writes:
One of the basics of NATO is an agreement to stand together against any nation that attempts to annex territory by force.
Exactly. Turkey could have talked to fellow NATO allies and set up a defense force to protect Turkey's southern border, but they didn't. It's all too obvious that they want to aggressively attack Kurds, and don't want other people in the way. The WH knew this, too. By pulling our troops out of N. Syria we signed the Kurds death certificates.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3406 by jar, posted 10-10-2019 1:54 PM jar has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 3440 of 4573 (864461)
10-11-2019 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 3429 by ICANT
10-11-2019 12:36 PM


Re: Abiy Ahmed Wins Nobel Peace Prize
ICANT writes:
He fights for the principals we believe in that are guaranteed by our Constitution.
If your principles include a government free of corruption, then he is tearing down those principles.
Freedom of speech for everyone not just the liberals that believe freedom of speech does not apply for conservatives.
Everyone does have free speech.
He is pro life.
Unless you are a Kurd or an immigrant.
We have the best economy that has existed in my 80 years on earth.
That's being threatened by tariffs put in place by Trump.
He believes we should be a country with borders.
We've had borders for the entire existence of our country, an no one is saying that we shouldn't have borders.
He does not support assuming financial responsibility for illegal aliens.
That conflicts with his pro-life position since this will require letting illegal aliens die outside of hospitals.
He believes we should obey our laws and enforce them.
He doesn't think his political allies like Manifort should be convicted felons because they are above the law. He is about to be impeached for breaking some of the most important and foundational laws of our land, the solicitation of foreign governments for interference in our elections. What you just wrote is one of the biggest falsehoods I have seen, and that is saying something.
He supports our military, and police.
He denigrates the FBI and CIA on a regular basis.
He is willing to stand up against the establishment including the Rinos
The problem is that he considers the law as part of that establishment.
He is fighting to level the playing field around the world.
He has abused his offic to openly solicite foreign interference in our elections to make it an unfair playing field.
He is building a wall on our southern border and Mexico is paying a hefty price for part of that wall as they have 27,000 soldiers on its southern border which has drastically reduced the number of illegal's crossing our border with Mexico.
This is about the only one I can agree with so far. I guess you guys don't mind electing the most corrupt president in history, as long as you get a wall.
He has brought business back to the U>S.
Not really.
"Foreign investment in the United States grew at a slower annual pace in the first two years of Mr. Trump’s tenure than during Barack Obama’s presidency, according to Commerce Department data released in July. Growth in business investment from all sources, foreign and domestic, accelerated briefly after Mr. Trump signed a $1.5 trillion tax-cut package in late 2017 but then slowed. Investment growth turned negative this spring, providing a drag on economic output."
Trump’s Push to Bring Back Jobs to U.S. Shows Limited Results - The New York Times
He has said my Medicare is going to stay safe, not destroyed.
Trump is actively trying to move people off of Medicare.
"Watch out, older Americans and people with disabilities! President Trump just announced a plan to give corporate health insurers more control over your health care. His new executive order calls for market-based pricing, which would drive up costs for everyone with Medicare, eviscerate traditional Medicare, and steer more people into for-profit Medicare Advantage plans."
Opinion | Watch Out, Seniors! Trump Just Launched a Stealth Attack on Medicare | Diane Archer
He has said my Social Security that I paid into is going to stay safe.
For the record, I am paying your Social Security. It is not a savings account but a pay-as-you go system where working people pay benefits to retirees. Also, this:
"Donald Trump won’t say it, but Republicans in the Senate will: Social Security and Medicare would be on the chopping block in a second Trump term. Pointing to rising deficits, Republican senators have all but promised to gut entitlements if Trump gets four more years.
Sen. John Thune (R-SD), the second-ranking Senate Republican, expressed hope to the New York Times that Trump would be interested in reforming Social Security and Medicare. Sen. John Barrasso (R-WY) was even more optimistic. We’ve brought it up with President Trump, who has talked about it being a second-term project, Barrasso said. Senate Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) has made no secret of wanting to cut Social Security. "
Trump's Second-Term Plan For Social Security: Starve The Beast
He does not support a federal government takeover of healthcare.
Medicare-for-all would not be a federal government takeover of healthcare.
He does not support us becoming a socialist country.
We already are a socialist country, as evidenced by the very things you want such as Social Security and Medicare. Those are socialist programs.
He does not support going back to the 1800's. Climate control.
What in the heck does that mean? How would changing to non-fossil fuel power generation be comparable to going back to the 1800's?
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3429 by ICANT, posted 10-11-2019 12:36 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3451 by ICANT, posted 10-12-2019 5:34 PM Taq has replied
 Message 3460 by dwise1, posted 10-12-2019 10:19 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 3485 of 4573 (864724)
10-15-2019 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 3451 by ICANT
10-12-2019 5:34 PM


Re: Abiy Ahmed Wins Nobel Peace Prize
ICANT writes:
When people walk across our borders without authorization we do not have borders.
Then no country has borders because no fortification has ever been 100% successful. How many people made it across the Berlin wall?
Why do you feel the taxpayers of the United State should be responsible for someone who has entered our country without our permission?
Common decency. Ever heard of it?
Would you care to quote me the words where he solicitated foreign governments to interfere in our elections, and point me to the source.
Sure.
quote:
I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you're surrounding yourself with some of the same people. . .
The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.
Read the transcript of Trump's conversation with Volodymyr Zelensky | CNN Politics
He is the chief law enforcement officer in the U.S. So if he needs to call out blatant misuse of power by people like Comey and Brennen and many others in the FBI and the CIA just how is he supposed to do that, without making a lot of waves?
The only offense those people have committed is in holding the president accountable. This president regularly denigrates people whose only goal is to follow the law.
Where do you get such an idea as that?
He appointed two supreme court judges that believe in the Constitution as it was written not as a living changing document.
Too bad the president himself doesn't believe in the US Constitution, as shown by his belief that an impeachment is unconstitutional.
No gas automobiles.
No diesel trucks hauling supplies.
No cows to produce milk.
No coal to produce electricity.
Nuclear power to generate electricity is too dangerous.
No airplanes to fly in. They burn aviation fuel.
All of our factories would have to close down.
These are just a few of the problems we would face.
No one is saying we should get rid of these until we have a true replacement. Do you think a Tesla electric car is equivalent to a horse drawn carriage? Do you think using solar panels is like going back to the 1800's?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3451 by ICANT, posted 10-12-2019 5:34 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3486 by JonF, posted 10-15-2019 5:43 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 3488 by ICANT, posted 10-16-2019 1:03 AM Taq has replied

  
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