Believe in UFOs? This editorial's for you!

Go for it!

Wow, I just put "Delta Sierra Juliet" into google and everything was devoted to this UFO story (non military incident however, my memory was bad there).The skeptics light up the pages, but search long enough (I found it on google page 2) to find Leslie Kean's book and see GOOGLE BOOKS and start on page 56. You will find stuff the skeptics don't cover starting around page 57.I don't know what to make of it all but Ken Hansen (driving on that 1978 night) and his two nieces, of Apollo Bay, Australia, saw the greenish circular light "like it was riding on top of the airplane". It caused them to get out of their car. There were 20 eyewitnesses from that night. UFO reports from Hansen and others who knew nothing of the DELTA SIERRA JULIET transcript or audio.Be skeptical of the skeptics.EDIT skeptics are skeptical of skeptics (like Nickell & McGaha PLUS cover the Hansen witness) Valentich’s disappearance: case closed? | Shards of Magonia / Scherben von MagoniaEdited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

I planned on starting a thread on astronauts (their quotes and testimonies) someday, but something got me searching google this mourning.I was trying to find the actual L.A. Times article (if it even exists) of Commander Eugene Cernan's oft-quoted (and not specifically sourced) line about UFOs in 1973.

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I’ve been asked about UFOs and I’ve said publicly I thought they were somebody else, some other civilization.

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COMMANDER EUGENE CERNAN
Commander, Apollo 17 Mission
1973 article in the Los Angeles Times

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Quotes - Paradigm Research Group

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I don't know if this is the article or not (I need to subscribe to this publication some day to find out.)Search - Newspapers.comI come into the same problem every time I try to do searches for things:I am always faced with voluminous links full of so many credible government employees who know the evidence.

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UFO Existence Proven Beyond Reasonable Doubt, Says Former Head of Pentagon Alien Program
2017-12-24, Newsweek

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http://www.newsweek.com/...-beyond-reasonable-doubt-says-for...

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The existence of UFOs had been proved beyond reasonable doubt, according the head of the secret Pentagon program that analyzed the mysterious aircrafts. Luis Elizondo [said] of the sightings, In my opinion, if this was a court of law, we have reached the point of ‘beyond reasonable doubt.’ I think it’s pretty clear this is not us, and it’s not anyone else, so no one has to ask questions where they’re from. Elizondo led the U.S. Defense Department’s Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, investigating evidence of UFOs and alien life, from 2007 to 2012, when it was shuttered. Its existence was first reported by The New York Times last week. Elizondo [said] that there had been lots of UFO sightings and witnesses interviewed during the program’s five years. Investigators pinpointed geographical hot spots that were sometimes near nuclear facilities and power plants. They also observed trends among the aircrafts, including lack of flight surfaces on the objects and extreme maneuverability. There was never any display of hostility, but ... they maneuvered in ways no one else in the world had, he said. Despite Pentagon funding running out in 2012, Elizondo oversaw UFO work for another five years before resigning in October 2017 out of frustration with the secrecy of the investigations. He had pushed for videos of the possible alien sightings to be made public so people could see the footage. In his resignation letter to Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, Elizondo asked, Why aren’t we spending more time and effort on this issue?

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Note: Elizondo is one of several former government officials now employed by To the Stars Academy for Arts and Sciences, which claims it will "advance research into unexplained phenomena and develop related technology." This may be part of a planned roll out so that the public becomes more comfortable with the existence of UFOs. Many dozens of top officials have spoken openly of their personal involvement in the UFO cover-up, yet the media has failed to make this headlines until now. For more, explore the excellent, reliable resources in our UFO Information Center.

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UFO News Articles

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There is FINALLY an effort, by the government, to officially end the VERY REAL STIGMA associated with UFO reporting.

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UPDATED:SEP 23, 2019ORIGINAL:SEP 19, 2019

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Navy Confirms UFO Videos Are Real and Show Unidentified Aerial Phenomena

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It was in HISTORY’s series 'Unidentified' that the active-duty Navy pilots who encountered the crafts first came forward to share their stories.

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BECKY LITTLE

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The U.S. Navy has confirmed that three F-18 gun-camera videos first released by The New York Times and a UFO research organization show unidentified aerial phenomena, or UAPsa more formal term for UFOs that doesn’t have all the little-green-men baggage.

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The Times originally released two of the videos in a December 2017 article revealing that the Pentagon had operated a secret UFO investigatory project, called the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP). All three videos were published on the website of To the Stars Academy of Arts and Sciences, a UFO research organization founded by former Blink-182 singer and guitarist Tom DeLonge.

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VIEW: Declassified: UFOs Captured on Video by U.S. Fighter Pilots

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The news that the Navy considers the three videosunofficially known as FLIR1, Gimbal and GoFastas examples of UAPs first appeared on The Black Vault, a web site that specializes in declassified government documents. FLIR1 is from November 14, 2004, and Gimbal and GoFast are from January 21, 2015. Joseph Gradisher, official spokesperson for the deputy chief of naval operations for information warfare, emphasized to HISTORY that these videos represent only some of the UAP sightings the Navy is investigating.

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Those three videos are just part of a larger effort by the U.S. Navy to try and investigate a series of incursions into our training ranges by phenomena that we’re calling unidentified aerial phenomena, says Gradisher, who declined to say how many sightings there have been. Our aviators train as they fight. So when they’re out there training, if there’s an incursion by any kind of aerial vehicle phenomena, whatever, it puts the safety of our aviators at risk as well as the security of our training operations.

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READ MORE: Are UFOs a Threat to National Security? This Ex-U.S. Official Thinks They Warrant Investigation

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To be clear, the Navy is not saying that these videos show evidence of alien life. Rather, the Navy is saying it can’t identify the phenomena in the videos. The Navy considers UAPs like these a national security and safety problem because they are not authorized to be in U.S. airspace. After a series of classified briefings featuring Navy pilots and lawmakers this summer, the Navy announced it had formalized its process for pilots and other personnel to report UAPs so that records of these sightings are more consistent, and therefore easier to investigate.

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Gradisher told HISTORY the Navy is trying to reduce the stigma of reporting UAPs, which in the past pilots may have been disparagedor ignoredfor reporting. We want to get beyond that stigma, and encourage our aviators to report anything that they’re seeing out there.

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READ MORE: When Top Gun Pilots Tangled With a Tic-Tac-Shaped UF

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Official U.S. Navy video of a 2015 UFO encounter, taken aboard a Navy fighter jet from the nuclear aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt, off the eastern seaboard, near the Florida coast.
It was during the production of HISTORY’s series Unidentified: Inside America's UFO Investigation, the first season of which explored UAP phenomena in military contexts, that the active-duty Navy pilots who encountered the crafts captured in the three videos initially came forward to share their stories. The series, in partnership with To the Stars Academy, helped spark a dialogue that resulted in official acknowledgment of these crafts.

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Nick Pope, who worked for the U.K. Ministry of Defense’s UFO program from 1991 to 1994, has previously speculated that there are four possible explanations for the more recent UAPs identified by the U.S. Navy: errors in pilot or computer perception, a secret U.S. project being blind tested without the Navy’s knowledge, a foreign government’s aircraft or something completely unknown.

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What I think the Navy’s recent statement does, is it probably takes off the table the first of those explanations, he says. I think the clear perception is the Navy thinks we’re dealing with something real and tangible here. So not misidentifications, misperceptions, glitches or such.

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RELATED: Inside Area 51: Test Your Knowledge of the Real History

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Double-click the image to view a video of active-duty U.S. Navy pilot Lieutenant Ryan Graves going on the record with his firsthand account of a UFO sighting while flying training missions over the Atlantic ocean, in this clip from Season 1 of 'Unidentified: Inside America's UFO Investigation.'

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The history of U.S. government interest in UFOs
The U.S. military has actually been interested in UFOs for a long time, going back to 1948 with the U.S. Air Force’s Project Sign. The year before, a businessman named Kenneth Arnold had claimed that, while flying a plane near Mount Rainier in Washington state, he’d spied nine crescent-shaped objects speeding along like saucers skipping on water. Newspaper accounts that mixed up his words helped popularize the term flying saucer. Reports of this sighting led more people to claim they’d seen UFOs, and the Air Force decided to study these claims. In the Cold War context, the military was eager to know whether the growing numbers of reports about supposed flying saucers might actually be some kind of advanced Soviet spy crafts.

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READ MORE: Why Have There Been So Many UFO Sightings Near Nuclear Facilities?

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Project Sign was succeeded by another Air Force program called Project Grudge, which started and ended in 1949. The people who worked on Project Grudge concluded that UFO sightings were the result of hysteria, hoaxes, mental illness or the misidentification of known objects. Even so, in 1952 the Air Force established another program called Project Blue Book, the longest-running official government inquiry into UFOs. By the time Project Blue Book ended in 1969, the Air Force had investigated more than 12,000 UFO sightings, 701 of which remained unexplained.

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Unlike the Navy’s current system for its pilots and personnel to report UAP sightings, Project Blue Book documented and investigated accounts from anyone, military or civilian. At one point, it even had a questionnaire that allowed people to document their UFO sighting. Draw a picture that will show the shape of the object or objects, instructed one part of the questionnaire. Label and include in your sketch any details of the object that you saw such as wings, protrusions, etc., and especially exhaust trails or vapor trails. Place an arrow beside the drawing to show the direction the object was moving.

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READ MORE: Interactive Map: UFO Sightings Taken Seriously by the U.S. Government

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For now, the Navy isn’t releasing many details on the UAPs it’s investigating, including speculation on who might be behind them.

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We’re not going to characterize what any potential sources might be, Gradisher says. But as I’ve stated, there are two aspects of concern: the safety of our aviators, and the security of our operation. We don’t want people to see how we’re training, because we train as we fight.

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BY BECKY LITTLE

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Navy Confirms UFO Videos Are Real and Show Unidentified Aerial Phenomena - HISTORY

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I meant to only quote a few paragraphs, somehow the whole thing got quoted (I honestly am having computer trouble right now) Honest.Anyway, I found this stuff all by looking for Cernan's informationI put these 4 terms into google:saturday, january 6, 1973 los angeles times eugene cernan ufossaturday, january 6, 1973 los angeles times eugene cernanI’ve been asked (about UFOs) and I’ve said publicly I thought they (UFOs) were somebody else, some other civilization. l a times 1973 articleeugene cernan ufos timesALSO SEE:maurice chatelain santa clausI was just trying to get a better sense of the (supposed ) L.A. Times article from 1973 (all of the UFO BUFF SITE & BOOKS fail to even give the day of publication plus any actual actual specifics or context of the article, including the title and author), but the cool thing is that searches do turn up lots of good stuff.I was very pleased to see hat the Navy is trying to end the stigma that comes with reporting UFOs (people are afraid to even tell their wives). This was something the skeptics (like Joe Nickell) used to hammer the credibility of the Hansen 1978 witness to the DELTA SIERRA JULIET incident. Hansen was afraid to tell his wife, so Nickel used this to prove that his eyewitness account was from a later confabulation (even though his two nieces, who were with him in the car, have essentially the same story).People need the courage to talk about what they see right away, not later.The very possession of scientific knowledge is at stake here.(And for heavens sake, at least have the courage to tell your wife!)

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But this stuff is just demonic manifestations. I wonder if that will ever be discovered.

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Perhaps you can use the history of "Christian's" 2000 year existence to show us evidence for the existence of the "Holy Spirit" (although Christians did not invent the "Holy Spirit" mind you).You have this concept of the goatee-laden "Evil One" running around and poking people in the butt with his 3-forked pitch-fork.I honestly have no idea what you feel constitutes "evil" and it would help if you explained the good that has happened in the world from each century?

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So they are now admitting that these sightings are of real phenomena or objects. Hooray. I understand the Vatican is also studying these phenomena.

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The Roman Catholics come up, I see.I suppose you will say the Evil One overpowered the "Holy Spirit" during the centuries of Roman Catholic dominance. The period from 241-1200/1300 had a large Manichean alternative the the Catholics (At least in the first half of that 1000 year period, but the similar Cathars gained strength in the later part). Were the Manichaeans & Cathars the evidence of the "Holy Spirit"?(Nope?)I suppose you will say there was a foggy evidence of REAL "Holy Spirit" Christians, so tell me who these shadowy REAL Christians were?Back to Catholics:

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I suspect that eventually they and perhaps the US government and who knows who else will come out and declare them real for some political/global purpose. Perhaps one will show up with "aliens" too.

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Some "evil" purpose, like worshiping the goat-demon with a pitchfork?Some big scheme to get the world to join in some "demonic ritual" at the card table, for "fun"?An Ouija conspiracy?Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

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Check this out from NPR, usually a credible news source:
'Not One Drop Of Blood': Cattle Mysteriously Mutilated In Oregon
Does anyone have any explanation for how this occurred?

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I remember reading an article (from Steve Quayle?) from a fundamentalist Christian, and he/she used cattle mutilations as evidence that the UFOs are "evil".It was odd to see the death of a rancher's livestock described as "evil".(Stop and think a moment)

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Wut? I don't even know where to begin.

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So what is the "evil" part you are so concerned about?Compared to what "good", exactly?What is the big conspiracy?

Exo-Vaticana 0Here are parts:

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DNA Harvesting, Genetic Manipulation and the Seed of the Serpent

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When former Christian college professor and BBC correspondent, Dr. I.D.E. Thomas, in his highly recommended book, The Omega Conspiracy, chronicled the burgeoning of so-called alien abduction activity in the 1980s, he made similar enlightening connections between the alien-abduction phenomenon and end-time prophecy concerning a return of Nephilim, something other writers have since built upon.

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Documentation by abductees worldwide and the stories of DNA harvesting by aliens reminded him of the history of biological misuse by the Watchers.

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Dr. Thomas told us personally that the special desire by the aliens for human and animal molecular matter could explain why animals have been killed, mutilated, and stolen by the aliens, a point Valle repeated in his book, The Invisible College: What a Group of Scientists Has Discovered About UFO Influences on the Human Race, when he wrote:

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In order to materialize and take definite form, these entities seem to require a source of energya living thinga human medium

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Our sciences have not reached a point where they can offer us any kind of working hypothesis for this process. But we can speculate that these beings need living energy which they can reconstruct into physical form.

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Perhaps that is why dogs and animals tend to vanish in [UFO] flap areas. Perhaps the living cells of those animals are somehow used by the ultraterrestrials to create forms which we can see and sense with our limited perceptions. [ii]

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Evidence concerning the collection of living cells from animal (and human) mutilations indicates something very unusual and unworldly.

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The precision by which the material is collected has often been compared to laser-like precision, but Lieutenant Colonel Philip J. Corso (1915-1998), who is best known today for his book The Day After Roswell (which disclosed his involvement in allegedly back-engineering extraterrestrial technology recovered from the UFO crash site at Roswell, NM in 1947), was working on a manuscript before he died titled Dawn of a New Age that described an unknown technology beyond laser accuracy used by unsympathetic Extraterrestrial Biological Entities (EBEs) for tissue removal:

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A study and laboratory reports show that the tissue taken from animals and humans by the alien EBEs also centers around celi structure.

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So delicate and perfected is their advanced approach that when they cut out the private reproductive parts (vagina, penis, testicles) and the rectum, eyes ears, udders, etc., they do not cut through cells.

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The cells are separated not cut through. Even the brain is taken in a manner where there is no cerebral trauma.

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In their animal and human mutilations, the aliens have shown a callous indifference concerning their victims. Their behavior has been insidious and it appears they might be using our earth and manipulating earth life. Skeptics will excuse them that possibly they are benevolent and want to help, however, there is no evidence they have healed anyone or alleviated human ailments.

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On the other band, they have caused pain, suffering and even death. [iii]

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As,

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the Battalion Commander of European Air Defense in WW-II

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the Chief of the Special Projects branch of the Intelligence Division under General Douglas MacArthur

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a staff member of President Eisenhower’s National Security Council for four years,

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...Corso’s unpublished work illustrates how the science and purpose behind the alleged modern ET-human-hybridization agenda is so clouded in mystery that not even leaders from the world’s most prestigious intelligence bureaus seem to fathom it (except - as we will seek to document in the upcoming book Exo-Vaticana - at above-top-secret levels there are Black Government Agencies participating with the alien entities in some sort of Cosmic Watergate wherein the breeding program transpires).

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And

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One cannot read the conclusions by Gary Stearman and David Flynn without calling to mind Genesis 3:15, which says,

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And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed [zera, meaning offspring, descendants, or children] and her seed.

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From the Middle Ages forward, church leaders believed this genotype or seed would provide for the mystical arrival of Antichrist and ultimately represent the return of Nephilim - the reunion of demons with humans.

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Back in 1976, Academician N.P. Dubinin, the first director of the Institute of Cytology and Genetics of the Siberian Branch of the USSR Academy of Sciences (1957-1959) may have understood a key element related to how Satan’s seed would animate Antichrist on earth in the last days. He described by what means in his opinion the genetics revolution would lead to an exchange of living forms taking place between the earth and other worlds. [x]

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After reading his material, Russian Orthodox Archpriest Vladislav Sveshnikov expressed apocalyptic fears, saying:

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We have to admit that contemporary science is preparing the ground for the coming of the Antichrist.

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Why did Sveshnikov imagine the exchange of genetic material between the earth and other worlds leading to Antichrist?

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He saw something reminiscent of the Watchers advent being repeated in,

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the manipulation of genes in order to produce the ‘superman’ or ‘man-god’ of Nietzsche’s imagination, who will be at the same time the ‘devil-man’ or ‘Antichrist’ of Christian patristic teaching. [xi]

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The English theologian George Hawkins Pember agreed with this premise, and in his 1876 masterpiece, Earth’s Earliest Ages analyzed the prophecy of Christ that says the end-times would be a repeat of the Days of Noah.

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Pember outlined the seven great causes of the antediluvian destruction and documented their developmental beginnings in his lifetime.

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Like Stearman, Flynn, and Sveshnikov, he concluded that the seventh and most fearful sign would be the return of the Nephilim and the arrival of Antichrist,

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The appearance upon earth of beings from the Principality of the Air, and their unlawful intercourse with the human race. [xii]

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Thus, it appears those social, spiritual, and academic intellectuals who now believe we are close to integration with intelligent alien life (and who also believe that this discovery could ultimately reconfigure established doctrines of science, religion, and salvation) may be closer to the truth than some of them have imagined.

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Events unfolding over the past decade portend a near future in which alien influences led by a man of unusual intelligence will arrive on Earth as champions of a new Gospel. Numerous Scriptures foretold the otherworldly leader’s coming for what he actually is - paganism’s ultimate incarnation; the beast of Revelation 13:1.

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As Jesus Christ was the seed of the woman (Genesis 3:15), the Antichrist will be the seed of the serpent.

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But the prophet Daniel may have provided an even greater clue as to the identity of this coming false savior. He says in chapter eleven, verse thirty-nine of his book that the Antichrist will be a worshipper of the god of forces - a god whom his fathers knew not, a text that we will analyze later and show from the Hebrew how it can literally be interpreted to mean, an alien god.

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What do you think?

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Oh nonsense. The biblical account pretty clearly points to fallen angels, demons that is, as the deities themselves, of most of the world's religions, from Molech to Allah and all the little tribes everywhere, including all the hundreds or is it millions of "gods" of India. "What the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils" said Paul somewhere, I'll look it up eventually. So if any of these UFOs or UAPs or whatever they are turn out to be real phenomena that get interpreted as extraterrestrial visitors, the most likely interpretation is that they are those very "gods" masquerading in a new form.

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Look at the context.Paul was in a religion that rejected ALL sacrifice and meat eating.The Hebrew Gospel of Matthew had Jesus vocally speaking against the eating of the Passover lamb.The Hindu religion was already rejecting (beginning to) sacrificing of animals.Ashoka (THE BUDDIST RULER OF INDIA) had edicts that OUTLAWED sacrifice and they were found in the Aramaic language in Afghanistan.Between mighty Rome and India was Zoroastrian Persia, which had a founder that did not like the sacrifices and the pain they brought to animals. Zoroaster was vegetarian himself. His later followers were not.Paul was dealing with Judaism, which allowed certain animals to be eaten (if prepared properly), and the transition to Christianity. He was literally saying (1 Corinthians chapters 8-10) he did not think God cared for animal's suffering (chapter 9), but it was a "sin" against Jesus to offend anybody's conscience by eating meat (chapter 8, and see Romans 14).Chapter 10 had the issue of meat eating during the time the Temple was still standing (with sacrifices still going), and Paul was dealing with the complicated TRANSITION PERIOD.Paul, was attempting to "be all things to all people" (1 Cor 9:19), and was perhaps seeing a limited time-frame when & where meat could be eaten, with the transition to full vegetarianism not quite present yet. With a still limited amount of the world's population having knowledge of Christians very existence, and in an area of meat-eaters , he was saying food that was not prepared according to Kosher laws could be eaten if there were no observers aware of what was happening.Chapter 10 was discussing a meat-market full of meat-eaters and 100% non-Jewish people (gentiles). The mandatory vegetarianism was not quite locked in yet, it seems.He was speaking AFTER THE APOSTOLIC COUNCIL OF ACTS 15 which had rules which correspond to Jewish laws which include opposition to eating meat prepared by gentiles. The Mishna was an attempt to implement the Law of Moses with integrity. (Though there were additional laws of preparation which did overturn the tearing off of a chickens head in Moses' Torah, and the elaborate Shechita preparation laws probably had to do with animals not feeling pain or even noticing the cut)https://dash.harvard.edu/...m/handle/1/8852091/Gurtman05.pdfShechita - WikipediaTemple Grandin - WikipediaSee this 32 minute video when the cutting is not done correctly.PETA Reveals Extreme Cruelty at Kosher Slaughterhouses | PETASee Temple Grandin reference in Shechita thread.There were developing rules in the developing Judaism during Paul's period. Plus the Christian developments. Paul was probably making a bunch of contradictory moves in a complicated EARLY period. Eat meat for a limited time with no observers and no awareness by people concerned. I don't think Paul ever told people to eat pork, though it is possible he did if there is no "unclean food" (Romans 14:14 "there is nothing unclean in itself") and the mandatory vegetarianism wasn't quite up and running (until the Temple destruction and sacrifices ceased, with sacrifices being the only reason for meat eating according to the early Christian sources).Paul lived in the first century, but most 21st century Christians see the Christian movement as moving from some meat restrictions (early-mid first century) to total allowance of any type of meat consumption toward the end of the first Christian century.I feel Paul was moving in the direction of the larger Christian movement, as I understand it: mandatory vegetarianism.Everybody agrees there was a transition. (even Jewish Christians might have still been sacrificing animals, though I wonder if the all of the early Jewish Christians were the vegetarian Nazarenes/Nasoreans who sacrificed non-animals or included many other sacrificing-Jews who might have sacrificed animals)Paul was something of a yo-yo though (think of the toy that goes all over and back again, then in a different direction). He was all over the place on what he, himself, allowed. He said as much in 1 Cor 8-10. He might have cast a wide angle of his own rules (and allowances) and he probably contradicted Jesus' (chosen?) successor: James.Paul might have yo-yo-ED around so the straight line from Kosher restrictions toward vegetarianism temporarily saw lesser restrictions, though there is evidence (in his very words) that he was ultimately for practical vegetarianism.Paul was making his point that under certain circumstances, idol meat can be eaten (if nobody knows what it is, including the eater). He was saying the Roman Gods do not exist so they are not important enough to worry about.

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Various religions, Buddhism for one, Hinduism for another, have female spirits, devas or something like that.

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Devi is feminineDeva is masculineDeva is translated Deus in Tobit.The Zoroastrian religion says Devas are evil.Tobit has a Zoroastrian Deva mentioned which kills cows in the Iranian religion (The Jewish, and later Christian, version of the Deva kills husbands).

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You really do inhabit some totally other planet than I do. I didn't say one thing about good and evil or a conspiracy or anything. All I said was that what are taken for UFOs are most likely fallen angels/demons because they behave like the creatures of folklore the UFO expert Jacques Vallee describes in his books, and not like anything physical.

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You were talking about people sacrificing children to these "Gods" earlier.(I did not make to much of it at the time, since it was some fantastic view you had of the past)Now you have been saying they are going to pretend to be aliens.You made some vague comment about some sort of worldwide deception, and that was what I responded to.Your previous presentation seemed to be saying it would involve a lot of evil things, and by me putting evil in quotation marks ("evil"), I should have used italics instead.I thought you felt humans would be in on the deception, so that was the conspiracy part.Amazing you don't offer any attempt to outline why you have been making such alarming commentary about demons and deception.Except:

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AbE: HOWEVER, if this is the case we're talking major deception, which doesn't bode anything good for humanity.

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So this whole thing went from being a major calamity (to not only YOU the "demon"-fighter but also for a presently disinterested mankind) to just an inconvenient case of bad jock-itch (or a mosquito in the house)? Nothing too big, now? Just nothing very helpful? Like a fly in the house.Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

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I also mentioned that demons are the gods found all over the world after the Fall. Like those described in the OT I mention above.

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Scripture references, please.("after the Fall")

Just days ago:UFO investigations expert claims group could have physical evidence to make 'some sort of definitive conclusion' | Fox NewsElizondo has been making a powerful case against dogma, in recent months.(older story, not the one from a few days ago)

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Published June 15

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Luis Elizondo: Why is the government finally admitting UFOs are real, and why should we pay attention?

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Luis Elizondo By Luis Elizondo | Fox News

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The paradox

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In December 2017, much of the world was stunned to learn that pilots from the USS Nimitz encountered something eerily similar to the above scenario back in 2004, while conducting an exercise off of the sunny, southern coast of California. Just like a script from a science fiction movie, Top Gun-trained fighter pilots from the Nimitz were unfairly engaged with and attempting to intercept something that could only be described as extraordinary.

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What the pilots encountered that day was able to perform in ways that defied all logic and our current understanding of aerodynamics. Furthermore, beyond what the pilots saw with their own trained eye, the technological feat they encountered was further verified by the impressive Aegis SPY-1 radar, America’s premiere radar system at the time, and even gun camera footage and sonar systems from submarines accompanying the carrier.

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So far, we have observed some of its capabilities, but we still have no idea of its intent. From that perspective, this unorthodox challenge may still be considered a potential threat.

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more than one publication was able to independently verify that these incidents, along with many others, were officially reported to the Pentagon’s own secretive program called the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP), which was tasked with trying to decode the mystery of unidentified aerial phenomena (UAP).

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Equally shocking to most was the fact that these incidents were not isolated and continued for at least a decade later and involved other carrier battle groups around the world.

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The unorthodox

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The American military complex is arguably the world’s greatest institution at responding to threats. This is true on the battlefields, cyberspace, and even in outer space. If there is one thing we are good at, it is developing technologies to counter any threats in order to maintain our dominance. So why are we so utterly unprepared to address something that can easily out-maneuver our best-in-class pilots, in our very own tightly controlled airspace?

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Part of the reason is because these anomalous systems can perform in ways that are not only beyond our own capabilities, but far surpass our current understanding of aerodynamics and physics! Where do you start when every rule you’ve been taught to live by has been broken?

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As it turns out, our biggest weakness may be the dogma by which we are blinded. Luckily, recent understanding in quantum physics and next-generation technology may be able to help us address this problem.

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During my time managing AATIP, I learned first-hand that perhaps the greatest threat of all was not from the phenomena, but from ourselves. Our inability to process data that did not fit neatly within our own paradigms of what constitutes a threat or an ally, which often led to blank stares and uncomfortable silence.

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Eventually, we were stuck in this never-ending loop of disbelief, stigma, and "paralysis by analysis." Even to this day, there are elements within the U.S. government that resist further study of this topic despite the overwhelming evidence provided by our brave men and women in uniform, which is also backed by our most advanced and reliable sensors and technology.

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So here we are at the paradox of the unorthodox.

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Luis Elizondo: Why is the government finally admitting UFOs are real, and why should we pay attention? | Fox News

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Carl Sagan said that in every age and culture, there are those who see beyond the prejudices of their day, and faithfully record the facts of an event.(It was in the context of Sagan covering a Middle Age written record of the moon turning color from a possible middle age impact, thanks to a monastic religious community of witnesses who might have been inclined to record fanciful details due to false notions of their day)Dogma is indeed getting in the way of proper analysis.(Faith says the sightings are from demons flying on brooms, and many others are saying everything can be fully explained by reflections of the clouds showing up on a person's reading glasses)

The part about it not being "us":

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ALIENS
UFO Lobbyists Are Trying to Get the Truth From Congress, and They're Winning
There's been an explosion of UFO lobbyists in DCfrom Tom DeLonge to lawyers who demand that the president does a "Disclosure," in which he admits aliens live among us.
By MJ Banias
06 October 2019, 7:47pm

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At no time do we or have we mentioned extraterrestrials. We are simply ensuring our government does not fall victim to ‘strategic surprise’ by the technology being displayed by [Unknown Aerial Phenomena], Luis Elizondo, a former intelligence officer who was involved in the Pentagon’s UFO hunting Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, told Motherboard. Whether it be from Russia, China, allies, or little green men. Our efforts focus on the national security and technology aspect; not ET.

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We simply don't know at this point if non-human technology is even part of the equation, Elizondo stated. It is a nonsensical assertion at this point in time because we simply need more data to even make that initial assessment.

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UFO Lobbyists Are Trying to Get the Truth From Congress, and They're Winning

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But headlines like these might give another impression:

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FIRST CONTACT Pentagon X-files chief explains why aliens HAVE visited Earth after leading secret UFO-hunting project
Luis Elizondo said: 'My personal belief is that there is very compelling evidence that we may not be alone'

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Sam WebbJames Beal
19 Dec 2017, 15:47Updated: 20 Dec 2017, 13:52

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A PENTAGON official who ran a 16million programme which investigated the existence of UFOs and aliens says he believes travellers from outer space have already visited Earth. Luis Elizondo oversaw

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The "us" seems to be America's military pilots and their superiors.

Stanton Friedman was big on the "nuts and bolts" view of UFOs: they were from OUR dimension and were aliens.The larger UFO researching community took the inner dimensional hypothesis view.There was a joke, from Timothy "Mr. UFO" Beckley, that the evidence shows that these entities are doing acts that violate the laws of physics, but a few "nuts and bolts" are thrown in to make Stanton Friedman "happy".More on the possible nuts and bolts breakthrough:

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HUMANS

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Alien Research Group Started by Blink-182 Singer Says It's Found 'Exotic UFO Material'

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VICTOR TANGERMANN, FUTURISM

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28 SEP 2019

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Former Blink-182 singer Tom DeLonge has pulled off an astonishing career change. In 2017, after quitting the band, he co-founded a group called To the Stars Academy of Arts & Sciences, an organization committed to researching aliens.

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And he apparently now has something to show for it. In a recent Q&A with The New York Times, a reporter asked whether the group had obtained "exotic material samples from UFOs."

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The spokesperson's response: "certainly."

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It's still unclear what precise materials the Academy has gotten its hands on, and whether they relate in any way to the three videos it obtained of "unidentified aerial phenomena" that a spokesperson for the Navy recently revealed to be legitimate.

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"What we have been doing is trying to find the most qualified individuals at the most respectable institutions to conduct scientific analysis," Luis Elizondo, the director of global security and special programs for DeLonge's group, told the Times.

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"That scientific analysis includes physical analysis, it includes molecular and chemical analysis and ultimately it includes nuclear analysis."

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And it might be a while until we learn more about the group's activities.

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As Elizondo puts it, "the last thing we want to do is jump to any conclusions, prematurely. Ultimately, the data is going to decide what something is or what something isn't."

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This article was originally published by Futurism. Read the original article.

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Alien Research Group Started by Blink-182 Singer Says It's Found 'exotic UFO Material' : ScienceAlert

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Glad there is a way to begin to scientifically test actual material.Just a start, which could very well be more of a non-starter.Hope the story gets more detailed and soon. Or will it vanish without mercy?FURTHER COMMENTS:I have noticed that most stories just lift stuff from others.Here is part of a related article that has some different info.Alien hunters led by Blink 182 singer say they are nearing 'some sort of definitive conclusion' | Daily Mail OnlineI am starting a way after the article started, skipping stuff from the middle, and stopping a good way before the end.

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Last week, a spokesperson for To The Stars told the New York Times its newest discovery is 'exotic material samples from UFOs,' declining to comment further.

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DeLonge himself has posted photos of the flat stony objects on his Instagram page along with comments from himself and a To The Stars Academy official.

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'The structure and composition of these materials are not from any known existing military or commercial application,' Steve Justice, former head of Advanced Systems at Lockheed Martin's 'Skunk Works' who now leads To the Stars' Technology and Aerospace team, said of the find, according to DeLong.

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'We currently have multiple material samples being analyzed by contracted laboratories and have plans to extend the scope of this study,' he added.

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DeLonge first announced the Academy's discovery in a July 25 Instagram post, telling his followers they believe the material came from an 'Unidentified Aerial Vehicle.'

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'We have been able to establish that the material shows highly advanced anomalous engineering capabilities,' the singer wrote. 'This acquisition will allow us to expand the scope of our ADAM Research Project and accelerate R&D that could lead to numerous aerospace and engineering breakthroughs.'

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At least some of the material obtained by To The Stars, 'shows distortion and damage that appears to be caused by exposure to very high temperatures, but did not burn,' according to Justice.

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'We have some very strategic plans to help turn the science of these pieces into advanced capabilities,' the researcher was quoted saying in another of DeLong'es recent IG posts.

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'Wave Guides, mass reduction, all new meta-materials, and many more potentials are within view of new studies, some of which are already happening, and more studies we are planning.'

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So far neither the U.S. military has commented on To The Stars' latest findings.

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NASA did not immediately respond to DailyMail.com's request for comment Monday night.

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Last month, the United States Navy confirmed that spectacular footage released in 2017 that appears to show 'unexplained aerial phenomena' is authentic, but that the footage was never meant to be made public.

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The clips were first published by The New York Times in December of that year and were recorded by Department of Defense officials on two separate occasions.

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One clip was recorded near San Diego, California back in 2004, while a second video was captured off the coast of Jacksonville, Florida in 2015.

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Several months after those videos were published, To The Stars Academy released an additional video from the 2015 incident, which features a navy pilot remarking: 'What the f**k is that thing?'

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The Navy last month confirmed the authenticity of the videos for the first time.

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That was some text from an original article from October 5, 2019.Daily Mail introduces us to Steve Justice.He is the guy who seems to be sending samples to labs for testing.Other stories say there are non-disclosure agreements which prevent us from getting any details on just where and how these artifacts were found. But there was a live UFO incident going on in at least one (or more) case.Does this story have legs?
Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

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Hey LNA,
I read over your posts but they are too much, I just can't figure out what to respond to. After all your writing I don't even know for sure if you believe in UFOs or what you believe about them.

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UFOs are always going to be a difficult thing to reach a conclusion on. We do have secret technology constantly being developed by the government. Then there is the major issue of (much more confusion) aliens verses entities from another dimension. Extraterrestrial biological entities (EBE or ET) confuse the issue, and all the more so since there are so many reports of "grays" and such. UFOs should be seen as a separate issue from EBE stories.That is the issue of confusion - major confusion. People are confused when they jump to conclusions about what is the issue that really needs to be looked at.A story I linked (on FOX News) has Elizondo telling us that a better understand of physics (than presently possessed) could help explain UFOs and what is happening.This is an issue of those who embrace science verses those who want to simply deny.It is all about accepting science and the scientific process.There is the issue of solid objects (as opposed to simple visible light points) moving in a way that violates the laws of physics.One can accept the challenge the issue presents or one can be a DENIER.2 choices.The deniers will attempt to mix older incidents that had witness making mistakes (like mistaking objects with reflections coming off of a person's glasses, or perspective-based optical illusions among viewers/witnesses) in with the incidents that had multiple witnesses viewing objects from multiple-perspective/observation points which were (essentially) scientifically verified by advanced detection instruments.That is one point.Now the artifact (debris from a larger object) issue:It is about whether we can expect governmental transparency.The issue of actual artifacts being "too good to be true" means that we should be able to expect the government to allow us to see the location of the artifact's discovery (it would require retracing multiple steps back to see where the initial possession of the object came from)and get as much information - from the government - about the incident that accompanied the debris.(the issue of UFO buffs chattering about the inter dimensional hypothesis (IDH OR IH) verses the ETH should not distract from our demands for an accountable government that serves the people)This endless battle for knowing what the government is doing (with prohibitive $25,000 FOIA requests) can do nothing but distress those who want to believe in a good government that serves its people.The artifacts are a product of a secretive government, and we should, in a different world than we seem to inhabit, expect cooperation from our government.And can't we wonder why we are in the sad situation where we need a private group to send debris to laboratories just to find out what our government (at some level) already knows? Why do we have to look at this as a big "breakthrough", if we are able to somehow find out - through a private UFO group paying multiple labs to test debris that the government probably ALREADY knows about - that recovered debris displays advanced physical properties that are somewhat beyond what is presently seen by the public?Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.