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Author | Topic: Believe in UFOs? This editorial's for you! | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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OK.
But wait and see if there is some kind of event such a government revelation might portend, where we are "introduced" to some spaceship and its inhabitants, who are supposedly here to solve all our problems, like maybe climate change, even war perhaps? Maybe we'll be told they are the creators, or planters perhaps, of life on earth too and have come back to see what became of us. So we actually see this "spaceship" on TV and -- "greys" or whatever they are -- then what? I know you think it's too bizarre and won't happen but I do wonder what you would think if it did. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I also mentioned that demons are the gods found all over the world after the Fall. Like those described in the OT I mention above. Scripture references, please.("after the Fall") There isn't any direct statement that I know of, especially identifying the Fall as the specific pivotal point, but there are passages where we see that Satan and his demons are in charge of the world and you have to infer that this wasn't the way the world was originally created so they had to have taken over afterward. Since it was Satan who seduced our original parents the inference is that he earned the right to rule us at that point. There are two references in John to Satan as "the prince of this world." This is one of them:
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me. John 14:30 That is on 'this pageand there is more discussion of these references there. Also, Paul says
1Co 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. Well, sacrifice is something people do to "gods," right? So somehow or other the devils or demons became the gods.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
It's not going to happen is it. You're just teasing me. Life has become very weird in recent times so I don't know what to believe about such things. I forget where I first heard this scenario, it wasn't recent. Oh this guy, Christian guy, haven't listened to him in a long time, wonder if he's still out there, gets into really fringey stuff, can't remember his name either. I remember he lives in Florida and was visited by a voodoo demon one night that acted like a living skeleton and got in bed with him. Interesting stuff huh? You miss so much fascinating drama if you aren't a Christian. I think if I tease about something I'm pretty flatfooted about it so you'd know it. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You must not have been around many psychotic delusionals.
Oh well. There are many versions of demonic manifestations. The apparitions of "The Virgin Mary" that have been seen by Catholics, mostly children, over the years, are such demonic manifestations. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Hey LNA,
I read over your posts but they are too much, I just can't figure out what to respond to. After all your writing I don't even know for sure if you believe in UFOs or what you believe about them. Could I ask you a favor? Could you write a brief abstract of your posts and put it at the top, or bottom as you prefer, condensing the main points in it? I know you can do it because I asked it of you once before and you surprised me with a nicely done condensation. We all have our posting styles, it's like it's in our DNA or something, you can often tell from a distance who wrote what, but some of you guys who lard it on need to help us out here.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Demonic manifestations ARE gods. Or what the gods are. Not the real God but the gods.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I have religious nutsoids in my family.... Curious: Catholic?
I know psychotic delusions when I read them ... Na, I meant real psychotic delusionals. I've known well, one. There's a continual sense of something being "off," even sometimes on the scary side, not just the occasional statement of a belief you don't share. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Wow, you really were surrounded in your family. I'm familiar by now with pretty much all those versions but none of it was ever in my family. My own choice these days is a fairly sedate Calvinist Baptist church, although I do like to wave my arms in the air as you put it, because of my earlier experience in the charismatic churches. It's just emotional though, it's not delusional.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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One of the most boring jobs in the world is being an airline pilot. Planes fly themselves. Even when not on autopilot an airplane will maintain a steady heading and altitude. Yes, pilots do have to get involved during takeoffs and landings and rough air will create some excitement, but 99% of the time the pilot just sits there and stares out the window. During night flights and flying over the ocean, this can get very hypnotic. (Perhaps airlines should require their pilots on long flights to do a barrel roll or loop every 15 minutes to break up the monotony.) These conditions are ripe for visual misjudgments and optical illusions. Are you talking about something that has been discussed on this thread somewhere? What I remember is Hyro's post Message 27 where the video was about UFOs sighted by pilots of fighter planes launched from an aircraft carrier, not self-piloting passenger planes. So the suggestion that they were hypnotized due to inactivity is far from the truth in this case. Other sightings were from the aircraft carrier The Nimitz.
As a previous poster noted, when while piloting an airplane at night and seeing a small circular light, he couldn’t tell if it was large and far away or small and close. But he still concludes it was the size of a car and 150 feet away. You have this all wrong. That was hyro in Message 27describing his own personal experience on the deck of a ship at sea, not an airplane, and he was very tentative about his estimate of the size and distance of the object he saw precisely because the conditions made it so difficult to judge. He gave a tentative guess, not a conclusion.
Added to this visual inaccuracy, there are real visual effects that have been highly distorted by physical phenomenon, what I’ll call optical delusions. A well documented example of these is the fata morgana. And we’ve all seen what look like water on a road, but was just the sun glancing off the asphalt at a low angle Yes we are aware of all these possible ways we can be deceived in our perceptions.
But what about those radar detections that confirm the visual sightings and see the same thing? It’s important to remember that you never actually see any thing, never see any stuff, and never see any process. What your eye detects are photons reflected or emitted by that thing, stuff, or process. And those photons reach your eye after traveling through some medium that can bend, reflect, or otherwise distort those photons creating what I have called optical delusions. Photons are a form of electromagnetic radiation. Radar is also based on electromagnetic rays, and these rays, although of a much longer wavelength than light, are also subject to the same bending and distortion as photons. What the radar operator sees is not some detailed picture of the UFO with strange aliens peering through portholes. What he sees is a small blip on a green on gray radar display. In fact, the ground based radar is subject to more distortions of the radar signal due to the denser atmosphere near the ground and problems with ‘ground clutter’ - reflections from all the natural and manmade structures near ground level. This is why aircraft can avoid detection by flying ‘under the radar’. Probably the distortion of such radio signals that the average person is most familiar with is when their GPS display tells them that they are driving off in a field somewhere or through the center of a building. The radar detection of these UFOs in the video was from moving planes and an aircraft carrier, read by men very experienced in reading radar. I don't think your doubts would have been overlooked by them or not taken into account. And again the radar was not on the ground so your comments on that perspective are irrelevant.
Of course, none of this proves that no UFO sightings are due to exotic high performance aircraft, aliens, or, as propose by our resident crackpot, supernatural demons. It does indicate the level of skepticism and analysis that needs to be applied to UFO sightings, even if the sightings are by knowledgeable individuals and confirmed by radar. It also leaves open the question as to why the military found it necessary to classify the sightings. From my own experience working in the aerospace industry and holding several classification clearances, I’m guessing it’s because the military has a strong tendency to classify everything. It’s much easier to classify something and later declassify it than the other way around. And nobody ever got their ass in a wringer for overclassifying something. The men in the video who experienceds these UFO phenomena, on the aircraft carrier and in the air, were all solid skeptics who hesitated to come to a conclusion about what they were seeing. In the end they only knew that they had witnessed something that appeared to be extremely real, some kind of unknown flying objects, physical but not behaving according to the laws of physics. They were intelligent skeptics. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I guess it's possible that every single sighting or supposed encounter with a UFO was a misidentification or hallucination. But that seems harder to accept than that some of them were real and not explainable in any normal ways. Hyro's video in Message 27 would have to be a mass hallucination without any psychological or situational reason for it, the witnesses sound extremely sane and credible, and the reports of something that defies any kind of normal explanation.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Did you watch the video in Message 27?
Focusing on demons is kind of a distraction, since that is my own interpretation of what Jacques Vallee identified as beings as described in folklore. He studied the reports of UFO phenomena and showed that they followed that ancient pattern. Beings that come and go at will, move in ways that violate the laws of physics and so on. Why keep making an issue of my own interpretation of that when this guy addressed all these phenomena and found this particular characteristic in all of them. That seems like an important piece of information to me. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The video is rather dramatized, but I still think the men who saw the objects are good witnesses. But how would it look if scientifically studied instead I wonder. Collect all the radar data, interview the men separately in a neutral setting etc. Oh well.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Yes I know, there is only one person I know of who interprets these as nonphysical phenomena and that is Jacques Vallee who rightly concluded that they simply do not obey physical laws, but seem to behave the way countless phenomena reported down the ages do who are identified as "beings." He didn't call them demons, I did, he calls them beings. I say they are demons because those are identified in the Bible as one kind of angel, the fallen kind. So I'm the one saying they are demons, but vallee is a bone fide UFOolgist and he called them "beings."
All you science aficionados really need to learn that the easiest thing to do is rationalize something away.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Vallee studied the UFO phenomena for years. You need to learn some respect.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Vallee did because he doesn't believe in tne supernatural you snarky mizzerable slimebucket. Yeah suspend me whoever.
{Percy is becoming the Mad Censor for sure. "Mis(z)erable"?} _
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