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Author | Topic: Is The World Getting Better Or Worse? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Show us how it is wrong.
You will simply defend why the apologists dont...cant...or wont accept your answer by saying that they are liars. Frankly i reject this explanation as unrealistic. It plays well in a secular humanist and largely atheist forum but it is wrong.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes: The reason I don't trust you and ringo...particularly him..is because he is not a believer.quote: quote:
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I've told you many times: I want you to bring the apologists' arguments here, so we can see if they have any value.
How do you want me to do that? Phat writes:
The only message I have is what the Bible says. If you prefer a different message, it is up to you to explain why.
I guess what I am challenging is first of all why you have a different message. Phat writes:
Exactly. The point of that story is that anybody can see that the emperor has no clothes. Only those with a vested interest in the lie failed to point it out.
Yet you claim to show us the holy book as if you were the boy pointing out that the emperor has no clothes. Phat writes:
Who is this "us"?
None of us see it.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Of course you do. You're a big guy; if you're about to sit down on a flimsy-looking chair, you do it gently and if you hear a creaking sound you get back up.
I don't test every chair before I sit on it. Phat writes:
But every time you come to an intersection, whatever colour the light may be, you are prepared for it to change.
I don't slow down at every green light. Phat writes:
No. That's where we are. Even the most devout believer doesn't pray for safe passage through a red light; he stops.
ringo writes:
That's what you want the public consensus to be. the public consensus is that evidence trumps belief. Phat writes:
We are not unanimous. We do have a strong consensus. The people who pray their way through red lights we call insane.
We are not there yet...
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
But you still stop at the red lights, don't you? Reality does trump your faith.
Thats the prayer I pray before work most every day
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
That's false. You stop at red lights because you've seen the evidence that going through red lights causes collisions.
I only stop at the red lights because I am rendering unto Caesar that jurisdiction which is Caesars.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Why? God is worthy of exemption to critical thought... Why is your favorite God character different from the ones you think are made up?
Phat writes:
You keep asserting that. Where's the actual argument?
... I will argue that humans don't create Him...
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Silly bumper sticker. It's better to stand for nothing than the wrong thing.
One must stand for something or they will fall for anything. Phat writes:
I'm not asking you to justify making "a" decision. I'm asking you why you made the decision you made.
You will again and forever ask how I could justify making a decision....
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
There's the bias right there. If you were in the habit of going to mosques or Buddhist temples or synagogues or Mormon churches, your interpretation would have been quite different.
... one day in church when I suddenly felt different than I ever had felt before. Phat writes:
Of course there is. You should question every decision if you have the slightest interest in making the right decision.
Is there any reason why I should question that decision?
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So again, you look at the objective evidence in that context. Why do you scoff at evidence in the context of God?
It has been my observation that some people feel thus rush at a football game, but I am not so shallow to believe that a Broncos victory makes life in Denver better for a week.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
How can you know whether it's objective or not if you reject the idea of evidence out of hand? How do you know there can not be objective evidence of God?
ringo writes:
It is not objective. Why do you scoff at evidence in the context of God? Phat writes:
Why wouldn't it be?
Do you think that it has to be evident for everyone or is this even realistic? Phat writes:
Have you even read that story? After all, even the Bible says that many are called and few are chosen.quote:The evidence was very evident (and so was the king's childish response).
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That doesn't answer the question. We agree that there isn't any evidence of God but the proper conclusion is that there is no God, not that there is a top secret God.
ringo writes:
Because if that were so, everyone would believe..or more correctly know that God exists. And they don't. How do you know there can not be objective evidence of God?
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Do you dismiss leprechauns based on lack of objective evidence? Or Zeus? Or the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Or six-foot rabbits? Or unicorns? Or Quetzalcoatl? Or hobbits?
Unlike some, I don't simply dismiss the belief based on lack of objective evidence.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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I disagree. Your "correction" is circular: Absence of evidence is evidence of absence of evidence. Not very useful.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
RAZD writes:
"Known" is redundant. Known evidence is indistinguishable from evidence.
That's why I added "known" to the syllogism.
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