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Author Topic:   Is The World Getting Better Or Worse?
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 654 of 762 (864513)
10-12-2019 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 649 by Phat
10-12-2019 9:21 AM


Re: There is nothing in Protestantism to compare to the RCC Inquisition
Phat writes:
You will simply defend why the apologists dont...cant...or wont accept your answer by saying that they are liars. Frankly i reject this explanation as unrealistic. It plays well in a secular humanist and largely atheist forum but it is wrong.
Show us how it is wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 649 by Phat, posted 10-12-2019 9:21 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 656 by Phat, posted 10-12-2019 11:47 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 658 of 762 (864517)
10-12-2019 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 651 by Phat
10-12-2019 10:49 AM


Re: on trust
Phat writes:
The reason I don't trust you and ringo...particularly him..is because he is not a believer.
quote:
The secret of steel has always carried with it a mystery. You must learn its riddle, little Conan. You must learn its discipline. For no one, no one in this world can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts. [Points to sword] This you can trust.
--Conan's father
quote:
Ephesians 6:13-17 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

This message is a reply to:
 Message 651 by Phat, posted 10-12-2019 10:49 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 662 by Phat, posted 10-12-2019 12:20 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 660 of 762 (864519)
10-12-2019 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 656 by Phat
10-12-2019 11:47 AM


Re: There is nothing in Protestantism to compare to the RCC Inquisition
Phat writes:
How do you want me to do that?
I've told you many times: I want you to bring the apologists' arguments here, so we can see if they have any value.
Phat writes:
I guess what I am challenging is first of all why you have a different message.
The only message I have is what the Bible says. If you prefer a different message, it is up to you to explain why.
Phat writes:
Yet you claim to show us the holy book as if you were the boy pointing out that the emperor has no clothes.
Exactly. The point of that story is that anybody can see that the emperor has no clothes. Only those with a vested interest in the lie failed to point it out.
Phat writes:
None of us see it.
Who is this "us"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 656 by Phat, posted 10-12-2019 11:47 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 661 of 762 (864520)
10-12-2019 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 657 by Phat
10-12-2019 11:53 AM


Re: Augustine versus Pelagius.
Phat writes:
I don't test every chair before I sit on it.
Of course you do. You're a big guy; if you're about to sit down on a flimsy-looking chair, you do it gently and if you hear a creaking sound you get back up.
Phat writes:
I don't slow down at every green light.
But every time you come to an intersection, whatever colour the light may be, you are prepared for it to change.
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
the public consensus is that evidence trumps belief.
That's what you want the public consensus to be.
No. That's where we are. Even the most devout believer doesn't pray for safe passage through a red light; he stops.
Phat writes:
We are not there yet...
We are not unanimous. We do have a strong consensus. The people who pray their way through red lights we call insane.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 657 by Phat, posted 10-12-2019 11:53 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 663 of 762 (864522)
10-12-2019 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 662 by Phat
10-12-2019 12:20 PM


Re: on trust
Phat writes:
Thats the prayer I pray before work most every day
But you still stop at the red lights, don't you? Reality does trump your faith.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 662 by Phat, posted 10-12-2019 12:20 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 667 by Phat, posted 10-12-2019 10:12 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 678 of 762 (864606)
10-13-2019 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 667 by Phat
10-12-2019 10:12 PM


Re: on trust
Phat writes:
I only stop at the red lights because I am rendering unto Caesar that jurisdiction which is Caesars.
That's false. You stop at red lights because you've seen the evidence that going through red lights causes collisions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 667 by Phat, posted 10-12-2019 10:12 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 679 by Phat, posted 10-13-2019 3:38 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 681 of 762 (864610)
10-13-2019 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 679 by Phat
10-13-2019 3:38 PM


Re: on trust
Phat writes:
God is worthy of exemption to critical thought...
Why?
Why is your favorite God character different from the ones you think are made up?
Phat writes:
... I will argue that humans don't create Him...
You keep asserting that. Where's the actual argument?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 679 by Phat, posted 10-13-2019 3:38 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 683 by Phat, posted 10-13-2019 3:50 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 684 of 762 (864613)
10-13-2019 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 683 by Phat
10-13-2019 3:50 PM


Re: Casting Our Vote
Phat writes:
One must stand for something or they will fall for anything.
Silly bumper sticker. It's better to stand for nothing than the wrong thing.
Phat writes:
You will again and forever ask how I could justify making a decision....
I'm not asking you to justify making "a" decision. I'm asking you why you made the decision you made.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 683 by Phat, posted 10-13-2019 3:50 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 685 by Phat, posted 10-13-2019 4:05 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 686 of 762 (864616)
10-13-2019 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 685 by Phat
10-13-2019 4:05 PM


Re: For Better Or Worse
Phat writes:
... one day in church when I suddenly felt different than I ever had felt before.
There's the bias right there. If you were in the habit of going to mosques or Buddhist temples or synagogues or Mormon churches, your interpretation would have been quite different.
Phat writes:
Is there any reason why I should question that decision?
Of course there is. You should question every decision if you have the slightest interest in making the right decision.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 685 by Phat, posted 10-13-2019 4:05 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 687 by Phat, posted 10-13-2019 4:14 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 688 of 762 (864618)
10-13-2019 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 687 by Phat
10-13-2019 4:14 PM


Re: For Better Or Worse
Phat writes:
It has been my observation that some people feel thus rush at a football game, but I am not so shallow to believe that a Broncos victory makes life in Denver better for a week.
So again, you look at the objective evidence in that context. Why do you scoff at evidence in the context of God?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 687 by Phat, posted 10-13-2019 4:14 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 689 by Phat, posted 10-13-2019 4:37 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 692 of 762 (864651)
10-14-2019 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 689 by Phat
10-13-2019 4:37 PM


Re: For Better Or Worse
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
Why do you scoff at evidence in the context of God?
It is not objective.
How can you know whether it's objective or not if you reject the idea of evidence out of hand? How do you know there can not be objective evidence of God?
Phat writes:
Do you think that it has to be evident for everyone or is this even realistic?
Why wouldn't it be?
Phat writes:
After all, even the Bible says that many are called and few are chosen.
Have you even read that story?
quote:
Matthew 22:22 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
The evidence was very evident (and so was the king's childish response).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 689 by Phat, posted 10-13-2019 4:37 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 693 by Phat, posted 10-14-2019 12:29 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 694 of 762 (864654)
10-14-2019 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 693 by Phat
10-14-2019 12:29 PM


Re: For Better Or Worse
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
How do you know there can not be objective evidence of God?
Because if that were so, everyone would believe..or more correctly know that God exists. And they don't.
That doesn't answer the question. We agree that there isn't any evidence of God but the proper conclusion is that there is no God, not that there is a top secret God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 693 by Phat, posted 10-14-2019 12:29 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 695 by Phat, posted 10-14-2019 12:36 PM ringo has replied
 Message 697 by RAZD, posted 10-14-2019 12:44 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 696 of 762 (864657)
10-14-2019 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 695 by Phat
10-14-2019 12:36 PM


Re: For Better Or Worse
Phat writes:
Unlike some, I don't simply dismiss the belief based on lack of objective evidence.
Do you dismiss leprechauns based on lack of objective evidence? Or Zeus? Or the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Or six-foot rabbits? Or unicorns? Or Quetzalcoatl? Or hobbits?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 695 by Phat, posted 10-14-2019 12:36 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 705 by LamarkNewAge, posted 10-14-2019 7:14 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 699 of 762 (864661)
10-14-2019 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 697 by RAZD
10-14-2019 12:44 PM


Re: sorry, not quite
I disagree. Your "correction" is circular: Absence of evidence is evidence of absence of evidence. Not very useful.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 697 by RAZD, posted 10-14-2019 12:44 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 701 by RAZD, posted 10-14-2019 1:23 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 702 of 762 (864666)
10-14-2019 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 701 by RAZD
10-14-2019 1:23 PM


Re: sorry, not quite
RAZD writes:
That's why I added "known" to the syllogism.
"Known" is redundant. Known evidence is indistinguishable from evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 701 by RAZD, posted 10-14-2019 1:23 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 703 by RAZD, posted 10-14-2019 2:47 PM ringo has replied

  
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