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Author | Topic: The Atheist Experience | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
No True Prayer. No True Conversion Experience. No True Christian. No True Scientist.
Fasting without true prayer may help your health but not your spirit.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Sure, but your versions of what is "true" are nonsensical.
I'm sure you'd agree there are False versions of all these things which does imply there is a True version:
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Your version of "biblical directives" is nonsensical.
True Prayer is to God according to biblical directives, such as "in the Name of Jesus." Faith writes:
You wouldn't recognize truth if it sat down beside you in church, as demonstrated by almost every one of your posts.
True Christianity is a specific body of truths such as if they are rejected makes a person not a true Christian. Faith writes:
"Spirit" is a function of mind and minds are easy to change. Missing your bus can change your view of the world into a hopeless mess.
True conversion is an actual change in the person toward Jesus Christ, a real spiritual change... Faith writes:
You don't get to declare the True Meaning of conversion any more than you get to declare the true meaning of prayer or Christianity.
... which is what the word "conversion" means, not merely a change in opinion.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Who said it was simple?
ringo and jar advocate simply doing the message...."working the works" so to speak. Phat writes:
And you know that's true for all practical purposes.
My beef with them is that they preach that God is absent, un-necessary, and something to be thrown away. Phat writes:
That's what your apologist handlers tell you. Show us where Jesus said it.
Jesus says that the work of God is to believe first and foremost. Phat writes:
Indeed I do. I've been trying on an almost daily basis for months now to get you to back up what the apologists are telling you. Why don't/can't you do it?
ringo claims that I have yet to find a *good* and *honest* apologist. Phat writes:
I don't give a flying fuck what Ravi Zacharias is accused of doing. If you think his teaching has value, for God's sake, show us the value.
Yes, Ravi inappropriately answered emails from a woman seeking to entrap him and sue him. Yes, he lied about his honorary degree. Does this make his teaching of no value? Phat writes:
No we're not. Your own mind is in turmoil.
We are in a spiritual war of ideology.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
I've asked you many times: What does it mean to believe?
You can "believe" fervently that the Salvation Army exists but does that get the homeless fed?
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
1. Because it isn't true. Mainstream Christianity claims that it is all about believing that Jesus died for us, rose from the dead and is alive today being a prerequisite to effective good works. Why throw that away?2. Because it's a scam trying to sell you get-out-of-hell-free.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
If they make a living at it, there must be some sort of transaction going on.
It costs nothing, why do you keep using the word "sell?" Faith writes:
Jesus called it a scam. He said He didn't know the ones who said, "Lord! Lord!" - i.e. the ones who expected to be saved by faith alone.
You have no reason to call it a scam. Faith writes:
Then how do professional apologists make a living? The whole point is it really IS free. Get out of jail free if you have to put it in such denigrating language. Free, got it? Free. And by the way, Jesus didn't promise that the straight and narrow way would be free or easy. That's the broad way that leadeth to destruction.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Duh. Is this a preferred method of arriving at a truth? Subjecting all of the evidence to falsification in order to test it? Is that a surprise to you after all these years?
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Moses, the author of the Torah, was the adopted son of an Egyptian pharaoh, educated at court, not a goat herder.quote:It doesn't say what Moses did for a living while he was dwelling in Midian - he might have been an accountant - but most people assume he helped with the herding.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
How many times do I have to mention Thomas?
It was never intended to be objective. The key is "whosoever believes", not whosoever objectively knows. Phat writes:
Electricity has no corporeal form, yet it can be studied objectively.
God, having no corporeal form, can never be examined and thus falsified.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You claim Goed leaves behind measurable, or at least detectable, effects.
It leaves behind measurable effects.... Phat writes:
I've answered that many times.
And my question to you Mr. ringo is why you see no reason to believe. Phat writes:
No. Many other Gods are more plausible and more palatable than the one you try to sell.
Is it because you are disillusioned by the Gods marketed? Phat writes:
Why would anything else be necessary?
Is it because you think that following the message is enough?
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
So he was a herder.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
How on earth do you figure that?
Exclusivity is necessary for true monotheism. You cant have inclusivism and strict monotheism combined. They are antithetical.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Why not? Even if your puny god can only fit your tiny mould, that has nothing to do with monothesism.
Because God isn't different rules for different people.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Show us.
You think that the apologists are the liars. A few are, but the majority have gotten the truth that the unbelievers cant grasp.
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