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Author Topic:   The Atheist Experience
ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 123 of 283 (864789)
10-16-2019 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Faith
10-16-2019 4:17 PM


Re: Matt Dillahunty & his fundie family feud.
Faith writes:
Fasting without true prayer may help your health but not your spirit.
No True Prayer. No True Conversion Experience. No True Christian. No True Scientist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Faith, posted 10-16-2019 4:17 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by Faith, posted 10-16-2019 5:14 PM ringo has replied
 Message 183 by Phat, posted 10-18-2019 11:49 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 125 of 283 (864796)
10-16-2019 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by Faith
10-16-2019 5:14 PM


Re: Matt Dillahunty & his fundie family feud.
Faith writes:
I'm sure you'd agree there are False versions of all these things which does imply there is a True version:
Sure, but your versions of what is "true" are nonsensical.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Faith, posted 10-16-2019 5:14 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Faith, posted 10-16-2019 10:09 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 142 of 283 (864832)
10-17-2019 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by Faith
10-16-2019 10:09 PM


Re: Matt Dillahunty & his fundie family feud.
Faith writes:
True Prayer is to God according to biblical directives, such as "in the Name of Jesus."
Your version of "biblical directives" is nonsensical.
Faith writes:
True Christianity is a specific body of truths such as if they are rejected makes a person not a true Christian.
You wouldn't recognize truth if it sat down beside you in church, as demonstrated by almost every one of your posts.
Faith writes:
True conversion is an actual change in the person toward Jesus Christ, a real spiritual change...
"Spirit" is a function of mind and minds are easy to change. Missing your bus can change your view of the world into a hopeless mess.
Faith writes:
... which is what the word "conversion" means, not merely a change in opinion.
You don't get to declare the True Meaning of conversion any more than you get to declare the true meaning of prayer or Christianity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Faith, posted 10-16-2019 10:09 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 143 of 283 (864833)
10-17-2019 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by Phat
10-17-2019 9:55 AM


Re: Scriptural Support for my argument
Phat writes:
ringo and jar advocate simply doing the message...."working the works" so to speak.
Who said it was simple?
Phat writes:
My beef with them is that they preach that God is absent, un-necessary, and something to be thrown away.
And you know that's true for all practical purposes.
Phat writes:
Jesus says that the work of God is to believe first and foremost.
That's what your apologist handlers tell you. Show us where Jesus said it.
Phat writes:
ringo claims that I have yet to find a *good* and *honest* apologist.
Indeed I do. I've been trying on an almost daily basis for months now to get you to back up what the apologists are telling you. Why don't/can't you do it?
Phat writes:
Yes, Ravi inappropriately answered emails from a woman seeking to entrap him and sue him. Yes, he lied about his honorary degree. Does this make his teaching of no value?
I don't give a flying fuck what Ravi Zacharias is accused of doing. If you think his teaching has value, for God's sake, show us the value.
Phat writes:
We are in a spiritual war of ideology.
No we're not. Your own mind is in turmoil.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Phat, posted 10-17-2019 9:55 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 153 of 283 (864854)
10-17-2019 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by Phat
10-17-2019 4:53 PM


Re: Yes Christianity offers the ONLY answer
I've asked you many times: What does it mean to believe?
You can "believe" fervently that the Salvation Army exists but does that get the homeless fed?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Phat, posted 10-17-2019 4:53 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by Phat, posted 10-17-2019 5:05 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 155 of 283 (864856)
10-17-2019 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by Phat
10-17-2019 5:05 PM


Re: Yes Christianity offers the ONLY answer
Phat writes:
Mainstream Christianity claims that it is all about believing that Jesus died for us, rose from the dead and is alive today being a prerequisite to effective good works. Why throw that away?
1. Because it isn't true.
2. Because it's a scam trying to sell you get-out-of-hell-free.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Phat, posted 10-17-2019 5:05 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Faith, posted 10-17-2019 6:02 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 171 of 283 (864886)
10-17-2019 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by Faith
10-17-2019 6:02 PM


Re: Yes Christianity offers the ONLY answer
Faith writes:
It costs nothing, why do you keep using the word "sell?"
If they make a living at it, there must be some sort of transaction going on.
Faith writes:
You have no reason to call it a scam.
Jesus called it a scam. He said He didn't know the ones who said, "Lord! Lord!" - i.e. the ones who expected to be saved by faith alone.
Faith writes:
The whole point is it really IS free. Get out of jail free if you have to put it in such denigrating language. Free, got it? Free.
Then how do professional apologists make a living?
And by the way, Jesus didn't promise that the straight and narrow way would be free or easy. That's the broad way that leadeth to destruction.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Faith, posted 10-17-2019 6:02 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 180 of 283 (864909)
10-18-2019 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by Phat
10-18-2019 11:11 AM


Re: Textual Criticism is a legitimate science
Phat writes:
Is this a preferred method of arriving at a truth? Subjecting all of the evidence to falsification in order to test it?
Duh.
Is that a surprise to you after all these years?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by Phat, posted 10-18-2019 11:11 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 182 of 283 (864911)
10-18-2019 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 179 by Faith
10-18-2019 11:18 AM


Re: Textual Criticism is a legitimate science
Faith writes:
Moses, the author of the Torah, was the adopted son of an Egyptian pharaoh, educated at court, not a goat herder.
quote:
Exodus2:15 Now when Pharaoh heard this thing, he sought to slay Moses. But Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh, and dwelt in the land of Midian: and he sat down by a well.
16 Now the priest of Midian had seven daughters: and they came and drew water, and filled the troughs to water their father's flock.
17 And the shepherds came and drove them away: but Moses stood up and helped them, and watered their flock.
18 And when they came to Reuel their father, he said, How is it that ye are come so soon to day?
19 And they said, An Egyptian delivered us out of the hand of the shepherds, and also drew water enough for us, and watered the flock.
20 And he said unto his daughters, And where is he? why is it that ye have left the man? call him, that he may eat bread.
21 And Moses was content to dwell with the man: and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter.
It doesn't say what Moses did for a living while he was dwelling in Midian - he might have been an accountant - but most people assume he helped with the herding.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Faith, posted 10-18-2019 11:18 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by Faith, posted 10-18-2019 12:22 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 184 of 283 (864914)
10-18-2019 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by Phat
10-18-2019 11:49 AM


Re: Matt Dillahunty & his fundie family feud.
Phat writes:
It was never intended to be objective. The key is "whosoever believes", not
whosoever objectively knows.
How many times do I have to mention Thomas?
Phat writes:
God, having no corporeal form, can never be examined and thus falsified.
Electricity has no corporeal form, yet it can be studied objectively.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Phat, posted 10-18-2019 11:49 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by Phat, posted 10-18-2019 12:04 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 186 of 283 (864917)
10-18-2019 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by Phat
10-18-2019 12:04 PM


Re: Matt Dillahunty & his fundie family feud.
Phat writes:
It leaves behind measurable effects....
You claim Goed leaves behind measurable, or at least detectable, effects.
Phat writes:
And my question to you Mr. ringo is why you see no reason to believe.
I've answered that many times.
Phat writes:
Is it because you are disillusioned by the Gods marketed?
No. Many other Gods are more plausible and more palatable than the one you try to sell.
Phat writes:
Is it because you think that following the message is enough?
Why would anything else be necessary?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Phat, posted 10-18-2019 12:04 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 188 of 283 (864919)
10-18-2019 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Faith
10-18-2019 12:22 PM


Re: Textual Criticism is a legitimate science
So he was a herder.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Faith, posted 10-18-2019 12:22 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 197 of 283 (864936)
10-18-2019 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by Phat
10-18-2019 4:35 PM


Re: On evidence
Phat writes:
Exclusivity is necessary for true monotheism. You cant have inclusivism and strict monotheism combined. They are antithetical.
How on earth do you figure that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Phat, posted 10-18-2019 4:35 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Phat, posted 10-18-2019 4:40 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 199 of 283 (864938)
10-18-2019 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by Phat
10-18-2019 4:40 PM


Re: On evidence
Phat writes:
Because God isn't different rules for different people.
Why not? Even if your puny god can only fit your tiny mould, that has nothing to do with monothesism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Phat, posted 10-18-2019 4:40 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 214 of 283 (864965)
10-19-2019 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 206 by Phat
10-19-2019 3:45 AM


Re: religion of goat herders revisited
Phat writes:
You think that the apologists are the liars. A few are, but the majority have gotten the truth that the unbelievers cant grasp.
Show us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Phat, posted 10-19-2019 3:45 AM Phat has not replied

  
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