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Author | Topic: The Atheist Experience | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Thugpreacha writes: Our issue here is Why Atheism? Why a-bigfootism? Why a-leprechaunism? There are tons of things you don't believe in. I would start there, and try to understand why you don't believe in them.
Will belief always be around? Or will humanity either outgrow the need (or God simply shows up undeniably)? I suspect that some sort of faith-based belief will always be a part of human society. It seems to be part of human psychology and experience. People find importance in religion, so who am I to tell them what is important in their lives? All that I really ask is that our government, law, and public institutions remain secular.
Why do you personally stick around EvC? Is it the people here? Is this sorta like an online social club? After all, we endlessly discuss the same things: Religion/Evolution vs Creationism, and Trump. Mostly this:
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
What makes you think Jesus didn't take the text as written?
Keep in mind that when Jesus was tempted in the wilderness, the devil himself knew scripture, and attempted to use it against Jesus. I am careful to not just take the text as written using conventional logic, reason, and reality.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Huh? No Comprende. Why would He not take the devil at his word, even if the word was the word written years before? The whole issue was that it was the devil attempting to get Jesus to agree with the scripture as an easy way out of his trial.
We can all learn from that. Easy does not usually mean better.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
The whole issue is that both Jesus and the devil quoted scripture exactly as it is, not in some voodoo interpretation like you seem to advocate. And notice that the devil's quotes and Jesus' quotes disagreed with each other - i.e. the Bible, taken as "one book", contradicts itself.
The whole issue was that it was the devil attempting to get Jesus to agree with the scripture as an easy way out of his trial.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: We also can use scriptures to contradict each other, but you always chide me for not listening to the character whom I believe in...and I always chide you for denying His existence. And notice that the devil's quotes and Jesus' quotes disagreed with each other - i.e. the Bible, taken as "one book", contradicts itself. So whats your point? We all know that the Bible can be taken to mean anything anyone wants it to mean...to a degree. My point is that God cannot lie and that Jesus never lied. Snakes and devils do lie...mostly by not telling us the bigger picture. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
And that point is still wrong.
My point is that God cannot lie.... Phat writes:
I'm not aware of any lying snakes in the Bible. Do you have an example?
Snakes and devils do lie... Phat writes:
In Genesis 2-3 it was God who didn't give the bigger picture. Even if we take your interpretation, He didn't tell Adam that "death" meant "spiritual death" or that "in the day" meant thousands of days in the future.
...mostly by not telling us the bigger picture.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: I expect that you will label this link as part of the conjob, but we think that you can be conned also. How To Read The Bible In Context Yet another absurd attempt to con the rubes. The content of the Bible is what was written in the Bible; apologetics are all just attempts to make the Bible something it is not nor was meant to be by the authors and to find loopholes to get around the actual text as written and try to make it fit the "Bible" and God" the apologists created.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: I expect that you will label this link as part of the conjob, but we think that you can be conned also. How To Read The Bible In Context The point is that the Bible is filled with errors, omissions, contradictions and fantasy as well as facts and history and opinions and propaganda. The point is that ringo acknowledges the Bible really says what it says while the apologists try to make it something different to match the God they create and market.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: The point is that ringo acknowledges the Bible really says what it says while the apologists try to make it something different to match the God they create and market. Two points (or counterpoints)
Dont claim to market one, you say? How about an unknowable God who is no more likely to consider humans as important than it does pond scum? How about a Jesus who was simply another dead human and a failed messiah? You can criticize the apologists all you want about marketing their own version of God. All I am pointing out is that your product is no better. The God in my mind is the God I choose to believe in, whether I create him or not. I won't be throwing Him away any time soon. I also choose to believe that the Bible is God's word. His message to humanity. I don't believe that the book is perfectly without errors, but I do believe that the book can be trusted if read with the proper mind (a mind submitted to Christ rather than stubbornly independent, unbiased, and skeptical)Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
So a "proper" mind is biased and gullible?
I do believe that the book can be trusted if read with the proper mind (a mind submitted to Christ rather than stubbornly independent, unbiased, and skeptical)
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: How about an unknowable God who is no more likely to consider humans as important than it does pond scum? That is not something I market but rather the conclusion of all available evidence.
Phat writes: How about a Jesus who was simply another dead human and a failed messiah? Again, what does the evidence show Phat? Did Jesus ever become a prince or ruler? Did Jesus die? Do you mean a mind that ignores and denies what is actually written and claims that it must mean sothething other than what was written?
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: Do you believe that He rose again? There is no objective evidence, though some claim there is.
Again, what does the evidence show Phat? Did Jesus ever become a prince or ruler? Did Jesus die? Do you mean a mind that ignores and denies what is actually written and claims that it must mean something other than what was written? Taking all of what was written, I will ask you the question you asked me,with an additional one.
Did Jesus ever become a prince or ruler? Did Jesus die? Do you believe that He was raised from the dead? Or do you have a mind that ignores and denies what is actually written and limits belief to evidence? Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: jar writes: Do you believe that He rose again? There is no objective evidence, though some claim there is. Again, what does the evidence show Phat? Did Jesus ever become a prince or ruler? Did Jesus die? Sorry but resurrection is not relevant to the question of whether or not Jesus was a Messiah. Was he ever a Prince or ruler? Did he die?
Phat writes: Do you believe that He was raised from the dead? Or do you have a mind that ignores and denies what is actually written and limits belief to evidence? Again, what I believe is irrelevant to the question of whether or not Jesus was a Messiah. Lots of folk were raised from the dead according to the Bible stories but that was not taken as evidence that they were a Messiah. Trying to avoid admitting what is actually written in the Bible by using misdirection to change the topic is hardly worthwhile. Edited by jar, : fix quotebox
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