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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Right Side of the News | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Faith writes: THINGS IN THIS COUNTRY HAVE BECOME SO INSANE YOU CAN ACTUALLY JUSTIFY ATTACKING A PERSON WHO DISAGREES WITH YOU. THAT IS OUT OF BOUNDS IN ANY CIVIL SOCIETY,...... IT IS YOU ALL WHO ARE SHOWING THE EVIL CHARACTER OF TRUMP HATERS BY ATTACKING ME. Help! Violent whiplash! --Percy
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
WHAT IRONY? WHERE HAVE I DONESUCH A THING TO ANYONE?
NAMED THEM AND ATTACKED THEM EXCLUSIVELY IN A WHOLE POST? AND IF I DID WHY DIDN'T YOU SUSPEND ME AS YOU SHOULD SUSPEND DEWISE AGAIN AND TAQ AND THEODORIC? I've reviewed this thread back quite a distance and only see me trying to get something said about the political lies and abuses in the service of finding something to pin on Trump. Where have I attacked any forum member like these people have? Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
can be no civility when one side or a person refuses to acknowledge facts. \\There can be no civility when people involved bring up the same argument time and time again even if it has been shown to be factually incorrect innumerable times. There can be no civility when people involved continue to post **** and disinformation. There can be no civility when people involved in the debate continue to attack the morals, intelligence and love of country, of those that disagree. I have never read such a bunch of crap in defense of hurting other human beings because of a difference of opinion. I do not consider your facts in many cases to be facts, they are twisted by ideology and are not facts at all. it is the Left that is spewing the disinformation, and if you don't like my opinion about that you have no right to hurt me over it. And that is what incivility is, hurting people. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
We've long since gone beyond rules of debate in this country. Every day laws are twisted to serve the anti Trumpers in what are at at least unethical and in some cases probably criminal acts. The Constitution has been corrupted over and over by the Left but all they ever do is project their own crimes on the Right. Which is not to say the Right is without offense but in comparison it's the Left that is the lying abuser of everything ethical and good these days.
I can hardly believe what you all do to the truth. I post a piece by Politico and Percy denies what it actually says. I can hardly believe the deviousness . And yet it seems to be unconscious deviousness, like you all have no idea what is really going on, what you are really doing. You don't seem to have any awareness of the Left's attempts to disenfranchise the Right. When you hear of them you discount them. It is hard to believe how much clever rhetoric by the Left goes on in defense of outright criminality. Hillary committed actual crimes for instance that are truly Russian Collusion and Obtrustion of Jusice, but the Left turns all their own crimes against Trump and the Right and you all just accept the crazy rationalizations as if they were truth. It was Hillary and her campaign that plotted to bring down Trump, paying for a false "dossier" concocted to destroy Trump's reputation, all foul lies, but that gets ignored completely and rationalized away while a huge lying effort is mounted to make it seem that Trump was the one committing the campaign fraud that was the actual doings of the Left. The whole Mueller investigation was at least in the service of covering up Clinton's crimes along with smearing Trump. And you all don't see it. Amazing. No, this is way beyond debate, but if you all want to try to clean up your debate act that would be a start. Instead you'll accuse ME of what you all are doing. There is something so twisted going on in this country, exemplified on this thread as well as many others, that I'm afraid there is no way out of it and the country is really going to be destroyed by it.I Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2
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Civil debate to you is debate where you are free to lie and abuse and make false accusations.
Applying the law to restrict the actions of the Right is twisting it. Using it to jail opponents on trumped-up charges is good.
quote: The interference reported in the story is far less than the Russian interference and does not appear to be illegal. Nor does it have anything to do with the mythical server. And of course you don’t want to consider what Giuliani is doing. Why should the President’s personal lawyer have any part in an official investigation ?
quote: We have yet to see anything compared to the Right’s attempts to disenfranchise the Left. Oh wait a minute you probably think that the impeachment hearings count. What a joke!
quote: There’s a massive example of projection right there. Hilary Clinton has been investigated and cleared - and with far less fuss over the investigation than we see from the Trump supporters (no doubt because they know Trump has a lot to hide)
quote: You are the leading offender. And worse at providing actual evidence (even on the rare occasions you do it is often poor - see my points about the Politico story above)
quote: Indeed and you are a part of it. Trump supporters would rather destroy the country than see their idol’s wrongdoing exposed. The lies - whether yours or somebody else’s - in your opening sentences are a prime example.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Right. Exactly what I knew you'd do. The Left will never acknowledge the truth of their own lies and crimes.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2
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quote: So, no substantive answer. Just more projection. When are you going to start admitting Trump’s wrongdoing’s?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Never, because he's committed nothing that rises to unethical or criminal behavior, it's all invented by the Left just because you don't like his personality. It's you all who need to recognize the wrongdoings and actual crimes on the Left. You have NO credibility with normal thinking people and you don't even know it.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2
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quote: In other words you do exactly what you accuse us of.
quote: You think that you are a normal thinking person ? You reject facts for ideological reasons. You apply gross double standards. You make false accusations - which often apply to you. And thought is often noticeably lacking. You are not normal. You are not a thinking person. You are a raving - often literally - fanatic.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5949 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5
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Never, because he's committed nothing that rises to unethical or criminal behavior, ... A complete and utter bullshit liie! Like you always liie! As I enumerated in Message 3073, to which all you did was to deny the truth!:
DWise1 writes: Faithless writes:
Completely false! Trump has committed no crimes. Without having to think hard:
Of course, there are also questions about the sources of Trump's income flows. If they turn out to be Russian, then that could help to explain why with Trump all roads lead to Putin. As a brief aside, let us review the espionage methods for recruiting assets: MICE -- Money, Ideology, Compromise/Coercion, Ego/Extortion. In my 35 years in the US military, I have received standard counter-intelligence training many times. One theme that kept cropping up was that most Americans who sell out their country do so for money; that makes Americans just about the easiest ones to turn just by throwing enough money at them. Of course, Trump is all about the money. And anything that fluffs his ego (reference to porn film fluffers) will definitely have his attention -- eg, reference the at least twice daily "fluffer briefings" especially prepared for Trump to show him all the positive press supporting him. And of course Trump has no ideology. But then there's the matter of compromise. Just coming in the first day, Trump was compromised by Russia. All during his campaign, Trump was supposed to have no financial ties with Russia. Yet all that time, he was still negotiating his Moscow Trump tower with the necessary powers, including Putin. He lied to the people and to the government about having financial ties to Russia. Russia knew that he was lying. Trump knew that Russia knew that he was lying. Putin is KGB ("Committee of Public Safety", if you read the actual Russian which I used to be able to do after a fashion). The KGB knows MICE very well indeed and are artists in its use. Putin knows what compromise is and how to exploit it. Even just with that one "Moscow Tower" lie, Trump was compromised from the very beginning. There still remain far too many questions about Trump's income stream, all of which must still be investigated. Yet Trump insists on preventing all such investigation. So what is he trying to cover up? So, Faith. Do you really think that Trump has committed no crimes? Then what are your answers to every single point I raised? You can start by explaining the emoluments issues raised by his use of golf trips to funnel government money into his own pocket. Or by his trying to use his Doral resort to host next year's G-7 meeting. Please explain to us how that does not enrich him at government expense, which is disallowed by the US Constitution. Or how foreign governments have been funneling through Trump's hotels what basically amount to bribes (eg, Saudis paying $725,000 for a block of rooms in his International Hotel in order to recruit unknowing veterans to lobby against a bill). IOW, for once in your life try to pretend that you are one of the "normal thinking people" and actually think about what Trump's doing. You know, when the impeachment hearings go public in mid-November, it's going to be harder and harder for you to ignore reality.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I leave it to those from whom I get most of my opinions these days to answer all that lying crap.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5949 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5
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That's part of your problem: you get most of your opinions by those who constantly feed you lying crap. You are what you eat, you know.
Is that what a "normal thinking person" (which you appear to claim to aspire to) would do? Or wouldn't a normal thinking person do something that to you is unspeakable? THINK! A normal thinking person would hear a claim and ask whether it's true. A normal thinking person would try to verify that claim. At the very least, a normal thinking person would THINK the claim through to see whether it makes any sense. None of which you will ever do. Faithless, you are not any kind of thinking person, let alone normal. We are thinking people and most of us are normal. We see something and we ask questions about it. We check to see whether it makes any sense. We at least try to verify it. None of which you will ever do.
I leave it to those from whom I get most of my opinions these days to answer all that lying crap. The typical response of a **** caught in her lyes.
What specific items in my list are you calling "lying crap"? Point them out! Explain to us why they are "lying crap"! Of course, you never will, because you have just been caught yet again in yet another liee. Let's take the emoluments issue I raised of Trump's incessant golf trips:
Trump goes golfing extremely frequently. In just two years, his time golfing far exceeded what Obama had put in in his entire eight years in office. Are you calling that "lying crap"? Please explain why. Trump goes to his own golf resorts each time. He has many options, including the one that Obama frequently used (the golf course on a nearby military base, which already had some security and which saved in travel costs by only requiring a motorcade) or to any golf resort in which he does not own any financial interest in (thus removing any appearance of conflict of interest). But instead he always goes to his own golf resorts. In doing so, he is directing government expeditures to his own business. Are you calling that "lying crap"? Please explain why. Golf courses and resorts charge you money to play there. There are also charges to rent various things, such as golf carts. Note that not only would Trump and those he's playing with would require carts, but Trump security and support retinue would also need carts. Are you calling that "lying crap"? Please explain why. Hotels and restaurants are present at golf resorts. Trump's golf resorts also have them. Are you calling that "lying crap"? Please explain why. Hotels charge you to stay in one of their rooms, along with whatever other expenses you rack up by staying there (eg, movie rentals, room service, mini-bar). Are you calling that "lying crap"? Please explain why. Restaurants and bars charge you for food and drink. Are you calling that "lying crap"? Please explain why. While at Trump's golf resorts, Trump and his entire party (including support and security) need rooms to stay in and they also need to eat and drink. They will be charged for those services. Are you calling that "lying crap"? Please explain why. The government pays the tab for all that. That is to say that we taxpayers are paying the tab for all that. Are you calling that "lying crap"? Please explain why. Trump owns those golf resorts -- even though the actual legalistic chain of ownership might be through Trump companies, he is ultimately the owner. Are you calling that "lying crap"? Please explain why. Profits from those golf resorts get distributed however, but ultimately Trump receives a profit from those golf resort profits. Are you calling that "lying crap"? Please explain why. Trump's decision to go only to his own golf resorts is what results in government (ie, taxpayer) money to be paid to those golf resorts. He could (and should!) choose to go elsewhere in order to avoid the appearance of conflict of interest and self-dealing, but he does not. Are you calling that "lying crap"? Please explain why. Because Trump is profiting from government expenditures based solely on his decision to direct business to his own businesses, he is in clear and blatant violation of the Domestic Emoluments Clause of the Constitution of the United States of America:
quote:The president's salary, currently $400,000 a year, must remain constant throughout the president's term -- though independently wealth presidents (eg, JFK) can and have waived that salary. The president may not receive other compensation from either the federal or any state government. Are you calling that "lying crap"? Please explain why. Now, any normal thinking person would have gone through the same line of reasoning to arrive at the conclusion that Trump is profiting from his golf trips and that that is not acceptable -- since I'm having to explain it to you, I had to really dumb it down and state so many obvious things that anyone familiar with the real world would know (eg, that hotels and restaurants charge for their services). But not you, since you are incapable of thinking. Not only that, but you run away terrified of any challenge to get you to think or even to support any of your crazed delusions. I know full well that you will not even attempt to explain why any of that is "lying crap". Instead, you will run away terrified of reality and the truth as always.
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Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Faith writes: We've long since gone beyond rules of debate in this country. The prime contributor would be the tweetmaster-in-chief. Here's one of his more innocuous offerings:
Every day laws are twisted to serve the anti Trumpers in what are at at least unethical and in some cases probably criminal acts. This is fictional. Just yesterday federal judge Beryl A. Howell dismissed Republican arguments that a House vote for initiating an impeachment inquiry was required, also noting that all prior impeachments had begun investigations before a full House vote anyway. Judge Howell also ordered that redacted portions of the Mueller report be made available to House committees, even if the reason was grand jury secrecy.
The Constitution has been corrupted over and over by the Left but all they ever do is project their own crimes on the Right. This, too, is fiction. The person most visibly running roughshod over the Constitution is President Trump by refusing to cooperate with House oversight or with the impeachment inquiry (see White House counsel Pat Cipollone's letter), by pressuring the Ukraine for assistance with his domestic political campaign for reelection, by making military assistance and White House meetings contingent on such assistance, by violating the emoluments clause, and by redirecting funds allocated by Congress for other purposes to his wall. I'm probably forgetting some items.
Which is not to say the Right is without offense but in comparison it's the Left that is the lying abuser of everything ethical and good these days. Neither side has a monopoly on truth and decency, but at present the Republicans are being prodded by a desperate president to commit rash acts, such as storm the secure House hearing room.
I can hardly believe what you all do to the truth. I post a piece by Politico and Percy denies what it actually says. This, too, is fiction. I replied to your Message 3100 in Message 3184. I pretty much summarized what your excerpt said and commented that it doesn't amount to much, but that it does raise some interesting questions, and I provided an example of one of those questions. You didn't reply to that message.
I can hardly believe the deviousness . And yet it seems to be unconscious deviousness, like you all have no idea what is really going on, what you are really doing. In leveling these accusations of deviousness have you already forgotten your declarations of how innocent you are of committing attacks?
You don't seem to have any awareness of the Left's attempts to disenfranchise the Right. This is just more fiction.
When you hear of them you discount them. Because these attempts you keep alluding to are fictional. Whoever you're listening to, they're making up the things they're telling you.
It is hard to believe how much clever rhetoric by the Left goes on in defense of outright criminality. But you think parody is criminal.
Hillary committed actual crimes for instance that are truly Russian collusion and obstruction of justice,... This is just more fiction - you can't actually name any collusive activity between the Clinton campaign and Russia, nor any obstruction of justice.
...but the Left turns all their own crimes against Trump and the Right and you all just accept the crazy rationalizations as if they were truth. Many of Trump's crimes are committed out in the open, like saying China should investigate the Bidens, and choosing his own Doral resort as the site of the next G7, and pressuring the Ukraine to investigate the Bidens as documented in his own transcript of his phone call with Ukrainian President Zelenskyy.
It was Hillary and her campaign that plotted to bring down Trump,... That is to say, Clinton campaigned against Trump.
...paying for a false "dossier" concocted to destroy Trump's reputation, all foul lies,... Nothing in the Steele dossier has been shown false, most is unverified, and some has been shown true.
...but that gets ignored completely and rationalized away while a huge lying effort is mounted to make it seem that Trump was the one committing the campaign fraud that was the actual doings of the Left. Wherever you're getting your information, they're lying to you. And the evidence mounting against Trump isn't about campaign fraud but about pressuring a foreign country to help his political campaign for president (one is illegal, and both are unconstitutional and a violation of his oath of office), and about obstruction of justice.
The whole Mueller investigation was at least in the service of covering up Clinton's crimes along with smearing Trump. Clinton stands accused of no crimes and is not being investigated for any crimes. Trump, on the other hand, is not only undergoing an impeachment inquiry, he's being investigated for campaign violations, he's charged with emoluments violations, he's being sued for defamation by Summer Zervos, his personal lawyer will probably be indicted soon (it would be his second personal lawyer to have that happen to him), and his tax returns seem likely to be made available to the appropriate authorities and might even become public. Do you never wonder why someone who has done nothing wrong would be so determined to keep everything about himself secret?
And you all don't see it. Amazing. We don't see it because there's nothing to see concerning your claims. You complain a lot about Clinton's crimes, but there's no evidence of any. You also claim that the issues for which Trump is under investigation and the actions for which he's being sued are mere smears, but there is a great deal of evidence for all of them with more on the way.
No, this is way beyond debate, but if you all want to try to clean up your debate act that would be a start. Instead you'll accuse ME of what you all are doing. What people are saying you're doing seems pretty much exactly what you're doing.
There is something so twisted going on in this country, exemplified on this thread as well as many others, that I'm afraid there is no way out of it and the country is really going to be destroyed by it. I think we can all agree with that. --Percy
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Clinton SHOULD stand accused of crimes but a politically motivated "justice system" let her off the hook. She actually did what Trump has been falsely accused of. This is just one of the millions of unjust acts on the part of the Left that are taking this country to hell in a handbasket.
The incivility is from the Left, if Trump reacts sometimes good for him. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5949 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5 |
Never, because he's committed nothing that rises to unethical or criminal behavior, it's all invented by the Left just because you don't like his personality. Again, completely and utterly false. However, it is obvious that you are completely lost in any questions about Trump's vast wrongdoings and what they will mean for him. They break down into impeachable offenses, violations of the law, and crimes against humanity:
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