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| Author | Topic: The Right Side of the News | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Percy Member  Posts: 22479 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
marc9000 writes: No Democrat in Congress or anyone in the news media is being crude or uncivil on anywhere near the scale of Trump. quote: Representative Rashida Tlaib, Democratic Congresswoman, Vows to Help Impeach Trump | National Review "Hours after being sworn into Congress..." - what professionalism! Now hats and tee shirts are being sold with that phrase on them. Haven't you already cited this Tlaib quote? A couple of times? Is that all you can do, cite the same thing over and over again? Here's my take on it. I object to Tlaib's use of crude language in a public forum, and I object to her advocacy of impeachment at a time when sufficient evidence of wrongdoing was not yet public.
Trump is the master of crudeness and incivility and no one sees any point in getting down in the mud with the master. As they say, you only get muddy and the pig likes it. When Trump came down the escalator in 2015 and made his presidential announcement, he was already the author of "over 15 best selling books". "The Art of the Deal, is considered a business classic and one of the most successful business books of all time." (Amazon) That quote's not from Amazon. That's from his publisher, Simon and Schuster, the company making money off the sale of his books (as is Amazon). The Art of the Deal is just Trump lying about one failed business deal after another. As we saw after he took office, he has no negotiating skills whatsoever. His negotiating style is clumsy, bullying, heavy-handed, extortive, manipulative. But what has the success of this book to do with the fact that he's crude and uncivil?
When he made his presidential announcement, he was blunt and direct, and undoubtedly injured some fragile feelings in politics and the news media, but he wasn't crude and uncivil. Really? How about this:
quote: Trump was blatantly uncivil in his presidential announcement, not to mention boastful to the point of telling tall tales, and committing to many things he hasn't followed through on, like improving infrastructure and putting Social Security and Medicare on a sound financial basis.
Tell ya what, we'll just go one for one. My sources are Trump and Fox News, your sources are the entire Congress and the mainstream news media , and we'll go insult for insult. I'll cite or quote a Trump insult, then you'll cite or quote one from Congress or the mainstream news media. We'll see who runs out first. I'll start (this one includes the irony of Trump not understanding the difference between a hyphen and an apostrophe): I'm going to have a busy week in this economy, doubt I'll have time. There are things going on in politics that are more important than insults. In other words, once again you can't back up what you say.
Why is there so much crudeness and bluntness at the top in politics today and not four years ago when Obama was president, or before him Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter or Ford? That's an easy one, because those past presidents weren't crudely and bluntly attacked by people who knew very little about them at the start of their campaigns yet, like Trump was. Can you say nothing true? Trump was easily the most known Republican candidate in 2016. He wrote The Art of the Deal. He had his name on real estate in prime locations. He was the star of The Apprentice that ran for years. He had a long public history derived from giving interviews to newspapers and on radio, taking out full page ads in newspapers, and tweeting.
The Bush's and Reagan were reported with plenty of bias in the news during their administrations, but they remained "presidential" and just tried to ignore it. They didn't meet it head-on like Trump does, and their silence could have been to their detriment. Unlike them, Trump has the Twitter option, and has decided to use it. It gets him a lot of emotional put-downs, (which could be to his advantage, somewhat) and it also gives him an opportunity to often set the tone for news, something that could help him with everyone, except his haters of course. You've just reinforced my point. Unlike Trump, other recent presidents possessed presidential demeanor. You claim he behaves this way because he's forced into it, but everyone else knows that that's just who he is, a rude, crude and dishonest real estate developer who's gone bankrupt multiple times, and who for these reasons is secretive in the extreme. He's even reluctant to pay his bills, even as president. He still hasn't paid bills for campaign and presidential visits to many cities, such as Burlington (VT), Lebanon (OH), Mesa (AZ), Erie (PA), Green Bay (WI), Spokane (WA), and on and on. Trump just skips town and ignores the bills, just as he always has.
But you didn't show it. You didn't cite a single CNN article that you felt showed bias. You just referred to someone describing Project Veritas's video. That was all I needed, to show actual quotes of employees at CNN, who clearly showed Zucker's objectives. The only way you could know if these employees' beliefs are correct is to check the news at CNN, which you haven't done, but I have, twice now. Neither time did the list of CNN headlines focus on impeachment to an inappropriate degree. Let's look at the CNN headlines this morning, which are mostly about impeachment, which is at the top of the news today, including Fox News. Here's CNN top headlines:
Is this focused on impeachment to an inappropriate degree? It doesn't look like it. And if you look down the list of other stories at CNN you can tell they don't have as great significance, such as a potential dam failure in California, the Microsoft work-week length in Japan, a stray puppy, Apple spending $2.5 billion on California's housing crisis, the murder of a Brazilian environmentalist, etc. CNN appears to have placed the top news stories at the top, right where they belong.
I know you poisoned my well of Project Veritas,... Project Veritas poisoned their own well by their own behavior. People describing their behavior are only passing on accurate information.
but the source doesn't matter if it contains actual, in context quotes. No one doubts that the people in the video actually said the things they said. The question is whether the things they said have any validity.
I know you'll say that the same is true when CNN and ABC only repeat Trumps mean tweets, but the difference is, many people don't care about the tone of his remarks, considering who he's dealing with. How is this relevant? Even if it were true that people don't care about "the tone of his remarks," that doesn't change the fact that his remarks are frequently rude and crude, not to mention often exaggerated and fictional.
They only care about the point of the message. Many do (and should) care about CNN's president's bias and hate. I would care deeply if the head of any news organization were biased and hateful. When will you be demonstrating that your claims are actually true?
It's a worthy news story, ABC World News Tonight viewers should know about it. But of course it's not reported. You want ABC World News Tonight to report that Mark Zucker is unfairly biased and hateful toward Trump based on a video produced by an organization with a reputation for producing blatantly misleading videos?
Yes. That Harder made those threats can be verified and proven. What can't be verified and proven are the accusations Harder made. If you think they can then go ahead and try. Already did. With CNN employees actual words about Zucker. The employees of any large organization have a variety of opinions about their leadership. Your evidence of Zucker's bias and hateful directive that coverage should be all impeachment all the time is a video produced by a disreputable organization. The CNN website itself doesn't support the claim. Nothing else supports that claim.
marc9000 writes: David Muir, Cecilia Vega and Jonathon Karl are a left wing activist group. I don't know who any of these people are - I'll have to look them up. That's understandable, different people's familiarity with different news casters are going to vary in every way possible. In the same way, those 3 people are the ONLY news people that a lot of busy evening news viewers are going to know. Some of them vote, and they're not very well informed. When you say, "they're not very well informed," do you mean Muir, Vega and Karl? That's just your bald claim. Can you back it up?
I see that David Muir is an anchor for ABC World News Tonight. Here's a recent news story he broadcast. Please tell us the deceptive edits, commentary and omissions: Well, the best way to do that would be to compare it to their news story of testimony from a National Security guy concerning Hillary Clinton's funding of the Steel Dossier. Let me know when you've found it, I'm not having much luck.  In other words, once again you can't back up your claim.
If you think this is focused on impeachment to an inappropriate degree then please explain how. It looks like that is ALL it's focused on,... Can you not read? Here's the top CNN stores that day again:
The stories are about CNN obtaining notes from Mueller's investigation and about border agent comments about smugglers sawing through Trump's wall. The substories to the first story relate to Wikileaks, the Ukraine phone call, Crowdstrike, and the Clinton email server. So only two of the six stories relate to impeachment. How do you conclude that impeachment "is ALL it's focused on?" Again, can you not read?
CNN seems to be focused on practically nothing but impeachment, just like some of its employees have said. So far, after 3 days of citing CNN's top stories, all we can see is that CNN's top stories are focused on whatever the top news is at the time.
The possibility that Trump's bringing those troops home was part of his strategy to kill Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi - also not near as important to report on as impeachment. But they did have a little to say about it;
quote: Triumph over top terrorist interrupts impeachment crisis engulfing Trump - CNNPolitics Your quote has a typo that isn't in the original ("found" instead of "founder"). Did you really type that quote in from scratch instead of just cut-n-pasting?
What an unbiased statement from CNN! We're talking news and you're citing an opinion piece, but in any case, didn't you watch the video of Trump's announcement that Baghdadi had been killed? If you watch this I think you have to agree with the characterization:
--Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22479 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
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Percy Member Posts: 22479 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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marc9000 writes: There's no question that in simpler times, rural America consisted largely of small and medium sized farms, and the supporting businesses and activity that supplemented them have since dried up. More accurately, the businesses that made their living by providing services within the farm community have declined simultaneously with the industrialization of farming, corporations taking over small farms, combining them, and running them with many fewer people. More and more farming is being done by fewer and fewer people due to increasing mechanization and corporate involvement. Family farms that are still successful often find the children aren't interested in following their parents in a farm life. Fewer people farming means less of a need for businesses in town.
But when all the immigrants were coming into the U.S. in the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries, and made lives for themselves outside of cities, they didn't exactly have it easy. Again, today's residents of rural America have it pretty good compared to past generations. How does current rural America being better off than past rural America justify abandoning them to live an impoverished life?
Wealth disparity is greater today than at any time in our country's history except for the last few years of the 1920's. I did notice a touch of jealousy in some of the rural American's comments, and that's a large part of the problem. They'd be a lot happier if they'd just live their own lives, and not compare themselves to wealthier people. I've seen evidences of very happy and productive poor people, and some very unhappy rich people. They're not unhappy because they're comparing themselves with the wealthy but with people just like themselves who happen to live in more prosperous regions, mostly urban and suburban areas.
The Bible says not to covet, the Apostle Peter, when told what he had to do, said, "what about him?" referring to John. Jesus said, "what is that to Thee?" Covetousness and jealousy are bigger problems today than many realize. I don't think preaching at the dissatisfied and disenfranchised is the answer.
You're against taking action against climate change. Check. Oh no, I'm still waiting to see what the "action" is going to be. There's a difference between clever political jargon and actual action. When I hear some, I'll let you know.  Internationally the approach has been to get nations to voluntarily commit to certain emissions/pollutant targets by a certain date. It seems unlikely to be successful. A number of cities will sink beneath the waves in the next 20 or 30 years, for example Alexandria, Egypt, and Miami Beach, Florida.
How much climate change happens due to human activity is a big debate today,... Keep telling yourself that.
...but it's clear to everyone that climate change can and has happened from other sources completely unrelated to human activity. Sure, but not this time.
What that means is that any attempts of man to improve or control climate change can't have target goals or accountability,... We know there can be emissions/pollutants target goals because they already exist. And there can of course be accountability/enforcement, for example, by UN organized trade boycotts.
...since other occurrences can interfere, sunspots as one example, and those occurrences aren't predictable or controllable. Sunspots follow a roughly 11-year solar cycle.
ABC News describes the California wildfires as "erupting", and "escalating rapidly". They seldom say that it takes a spark to ignite a fire, and fuel for it to burn. Is there anyone over the age of 10 who doesn't know that already?
The climate change activists seem to be trying to claim that the slight increase in global temperatures is causing the underbrush to be drier, therefore these fires are the result of climate change. But California's liberal forest management? Seldom mentioned. You're just repeating a fake argument Trump made up. California has been experiencing longer, hotter fire seasons, diminishing snowpack, and longer droughts, and that's why the trend has been more fires and more dangerous fires.
The climate change debate is reaching a fever pitch, probably almost to the point of the slavery debate in about 1858. The big difference is the MONEY involved - climate change action involves untold billions in corruption and bribes. Really? And you know this how?
As soon as Democrats turn loose of all their secrets about just what is going to be banned and whose lives are gong to be destroyed, the cry of "how dare you" is going to be met with "don't tread on me", and we're likely to see another very bloody internal war. Climate change isn't a Democrat/Republican issue or a left/right issue. It's a significant and worsening problem backed by a great deal of scientific data and analysis.
A rational guess is that one of the first climate change actions is for the government to analyze the most severe, and "least necessary" sources of fossil fuel use. You don't have to guess. The actions that are within our power to take have already been identified: a) reduce our reliance on power generation that produces greenhouse gases; b) increase the fuel efficiency of the motor vehicle fleet; c) provide incentives for renewable sources of power.
If I remember right, our very own RAZD, some years ago, made some reference to an old vehicle that he was working on/ restoring, somewhere in one of the more casual discussions here. It genuinely makes me wonder, does he think he'll get a special pass because he supports global warming activism, or will he gladly stand aside and watch jack-booted thugs come and seize it? Antique cars are a negligible proportion of the national motor vehicle fleet, its rare that they're driven many miles, and they'll continue to be grandfathered.
Your justifying anti-intellectualism, racism, bigotry and parochialism on the basis of tradition? Really? Those are your labels,... First you say these "disparaging attitudes have been traditional in the history of the U.S.," and now you're dismissing them as just labels?
...but if labeled differently,... A rose by any other name. Choose whatever labels you like, it's still anti-intellectualism, racism, bigotry and parochialism.
...like a realization that the U.S. wasn't founded automatically, and isn't sustained automatically,... I can only guess that you're trying to say something about not taking our country for granted.
...and some safeguards and understanding of human nature are required to avoid a collapse of our society, (like Venezuela) then it could be that tradition is a more solid mindset than your modern day name calling. So when people exhibit racism, calling them racist is name calling? What if managers at a Buffalo Wings restaurant ask a large party that includes black patrons to move because one of the other patrons sitting nearby is racist? Is calling their actions racist is just name calling? (Buffalo Wild Wings Managers Fired After Reportedly Asking Black Diners to Move)
I think we've become a bit more enlightened in our thinking in the century since Teddy Roosevelt. Here's one from Grover Cleveland;
quote:(bolded mine) http://www.liberalinstitute.com/...erGovernmentFunction.html There are some more of his quotes, and quotes from other past presidents as well at this link. Hearkening back to an even earlier time only reinforces how out of step you are with modern views on equality.
The "sturdiness of our national character" of 100 years ago is just about gone. The Democrat party of "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" is completely gone. Again, this isn't a Democrat/Republican issue or a left/right issue. Racism is wrong. Fortunately we're a less racist nation than a hundred years ago, but not as much as we could wish. And the further you go from the cities into the country the more you encounter racism. Them's just facts.
Of course it's Trump being Trump, a very insecure man Insecure? One of the reasons he's hated so much is because he has demonstrated confidence and a thick skin far beyond the expectations of many who voted for him in 2016. Now you're referring to Trump's narcissism.
Then why did you say that economic issues aren't going to sway any Trump voters? ?? Very few Trump voters are going to vote against him in the 2020 election because of the economy. You've lost the plot. What you originally said in Message 2969 was that economic appeals will not sway any Trump voters, and I pointed out that Trump has often stated that the strong economy is why he'll be reelected. In other words, to make this painfully obvious, even Trump believes that Trump voters are particularly receptive to economic appeals.
The urban/rural economic disparity has nothing to do with self reliance. It has to do with living in an economically disadvantaged region. The economic opportunities that exist in and closer to cities simply aren't present out in the country. That is true, largely because of urban area debt. Well now you're just talking through your hat. Economic opportunities in cities have exceeded those in the country since the beginning of cities. That reality has nothing to do with current trends in urban debt but with more people and opportunities being concentrated in a small area.
But that's not what you said. You referred to "the disastrous results of many past socialist experiments worldwide." If when you say "socialist experiments" you mean socialism in the classical sense of state ownership of business and industry then we're not talking about the same thing. By socialism is only meant social programs like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, and in Europe it would include healthcare. Europe's doing fine, having done an excellent job of blending social programs into free enterprise economies. Moving closer to the European model would make a lot of sense. Doesn't make a lot of sense to everyone. Adding healthcare for everyone to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid doesn't make a lot of sense to everyone? Who? Why?
quote: By socialism we're only talking about social programs, not the public ownership of business and industry or the nationalization of major industries. Social programs have not killed millions. They have provided a better and longer life for millions, hundreds of millions at least.
quote: Some kind of universal healthcare, whether it's Medicare-for-all or something else, student loan forgiveness, free college, these are all programs we should be highly motivated to figure out how to pay for. Just to keep tracking CNN headlines that you accused of being all impeachment all the time, today, for the first time since I started tracking this, this is an accurate characterization. Nearly all the headlines are about impeachment, which seems appropriate given yesterday's events:
In a week as this is likely to be, I think most news outlets are going to put impeachment-related headlines at the top of the news. Except Fox News, of course. Their top headlines are about the murder of a Mormon family in Mexico, the Michael Flynn trial, Trump and social media, the Tulsi Gabbard workout video, and a black cat on a football field. To Fox News it's as if there's no impeachment activity in Washington. I challenge you to find an impeachment story at Fox News right now (if you don't see this pretty quickly after I write this then it isn't valid as news websites update their webpages many times during the day). --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22479 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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Percy Member Posts: 22479 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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Faith and Marc kept complaining about how insulting the Democrats and mainstream media were, so I suggested we measure Trump and conservative media against Democratic Congresspeople and the mainstream media (no opinion pieces, please) insult-for-insult by taking turns posting them. They haven't offered anything yet, so they lose their turn and here's my offering for today, a Trump tweet:
 He calls Schiff a corrupt politician and is still overtly, blatantly and illegally trying to identify the whistleblower. I say add this last to the list of impeachable offenses under the heading Abuse of Power. He tells a blatant lie when he says the whistleblower gave false information. Everything the whistleblower said is backed up by both the White House provided transcript and by the testimony of individuals more directly involved. Trump does ask a good question about what happened to the second whistleblower. I'm curious about that, too. There's no recent news about him. My guess is that the rapid action by the House to gather the testimony of so many with direct knowledge of the Ukraine scandal quickly made it obvious that another whistleblower complaint was unnecessary. I doubt he'll file a complaint now. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22479 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
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Percy Member Posts: 22479 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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Percy Member Posts: 22479 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Still no matching insults/attacks posted by Faith or Marc, so I'll just post another Trump tweet:
Here he attacks New York Governor Cuomo and New York City Mayor DeBlasio for releasing 900 criminals, but it never happened and is not, as far as anyone knows, planned to happen. But it is true that Nearly 2,000 Federal Prison Terms Cut By First Step Act. The First Step Act was passed by a Republican Congress last year and signed by President Trump. Trump also attacks the "Radical Left Dems" for "killing our cities." Hard to know what he's talking about. Cities and the surrounding regions are where most of the productive economic activity of the country takes place. He does say one thing that is true: New York's police commissioner is resigning, but not under any cloud. He has been strongly criticized for firing the officer who killed someone he was arresting by using an illegal chokehold and then not administering or requesting any medical assistance when the person was in obvious distress. Many believe he has lost the support of the rank and file, and suicides among them have increased this year. Faith and Marc: If your claims that Trump is just responding to the attacks of Congressional Democrats and the mainstream media are not just fabrications, then post these attacks here. So far you're losing 3-0. --Percy Edited by Percy, : Grammar.
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Percy Member Posts: 22479 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Remember Juli Briskman? No? Well, here she is flipping off Trump's motorcade as he leaves his Trump National Golf Club to return to the White House:
Flipping the bird cost her her job, and she also lost her lawsuit against the company that let her go. But as reported by Fox News, she ran for a seat on the Loudoun County Board of Supervisors, the same county hosting Trump's golf club. She won. As Fox News Reports, Virginia cyclist who flipped off Trump's motorcade wins race for local office. I deplore Briskman's public gesture and celebrate her spirit. --Percy Edited by Percy, : Typo.
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Percy Member Posts: 22479 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
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Percy Member Posts: 22479 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
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Percy Member Posts: 22479 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
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Percy Member Posts: 22479 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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Percy Member Posts: 22479 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
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Percy Member Posts: 22479 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
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