Dominant Force in West Today According to Dennis Prager is Fear of Left

More correctly what His Daddy is gonna do to them, which really ends up being what they do to themselves by refusing Him and what the inevitable consequences are.

Heres the thing though. Nobody has to submit to any authoritarian. That's the bad spirit that infiltrated organized religion like it infiltrates or attempts to infiltrate everything human. If Jesus existed and if He brought the Holy Spirit by his subsequent necessary crucifixion and absence, the only authority that we are encouraged to listen to is that Spirit. No human should be anything apart from a teacher/encourager...never should we surrender our autonomy to any guru, prophet, or self-proclaimed authority. All we are encouraged to do is fellowship with like-minded believers and celebrate our communion with the Holy Spirit. Trust me its better than communion with alcohol!

Wrong. Jesus was in the beginning. We will note your belief, however.Since you base everything you say on evidence, you assume that Jesus was simply another human. It will take Him Himself to change your mind. Assuming you even want it. And you will claim that the evidence shows us advancing. How old are you...70? You may see your evidence refuted. Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

Perhaps you and I see different evidence. And to be fair, perhaps some of what I see as evidence are subjective feelings and experiences. I will report them, however, because there are certain events in one's life that affect their behavior and world views for the rest of their lives.I've by now read several books from both apologists making their arguments and by critics and atheists who make their cases also. Though I think that I am more open-minded than most "believers" I will admit that my entire perspective is based on my strongly held beliefs which originated with my conversion back in 1993.I dont see myself as a truth-seeker that simply allows bits and pieces of evidence to take me wherever the conclusions lead. I feel very strongly that there is deception in the world today and that we all are in a sense involved in a spiritual war--a war for truth. I believe that this truth is the truth of Jesus Christ, who I believe is God's messenger and very character. When I was "saved" in early 1993, I experienced a definite change in my life and feeling. This experience was admittedly influenced by a church that I was with, but the feeling was not because of them, I am quite sure. In fact, I think that many of them did not have the feeling of knowing that God was real and that the very Spirit was living and active within us. I believe that not everyone has this. Critics claim that this idea that Christianity is exclusive and subjective rather than inclusive and objective is the main reason they reject it...unless they happen to be similarly aware.Keep in mind that as I write this I am critical of myself. Never to the point of doubt, but always to the point of questioning what I feel, what Ive felt, and what others such as you claim I am supposed to feel and conclude.

I think I know where you are taking this.

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1. Cultural relativism is the positive attitude or concept while ethnocentrism is the negative side. 2. Cultural relativism is showing a sense of understanding for different cultures and treating the uniqueness of these cultures with the utmost respect. 3. Ethnocentrism is the belief that your culture is right or the best.

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Except in my mind, it is not a cultural thing. It's a human thing. Do I believe in Hell? To be honest, I don't know. Logically it would not make sense for humans to be doomed for hell when an all-powerful Creator could simply make the faulty ones cease to exist which, according to descriptions from all religions embracing such concepts, much more humane. On the other hand if Hell were intended as a sort of prison for rebellious spiritual beings, which ostensibly don't ever die, then the concept would make some sense. Humans would theoretically only end up there by default through rejecting Jesus.In addition, I can readily see the arguments that assert that the concept of hell was a fear and manipulation tactic by organized religion. And this is where it gets tricky. For if everything was initially taught and described by humans and if humans were fallible creatures of whom some were conmen and manipulators, finding the real truth through this smokescreen would be (and is) somewhat difficult. I use my intuition which I believe that I acquired when I first changed. Yet here again is a conundrum. Observation shows that people do in fact have a dramatic change when they first get saved, but that few of them maintain it and fall back into their old patterns and ways. For me personally, this happened. If anything, I knew better whereas I used to not even care before all of this. The seesaw battle within my own mind has thus been projected by myself into a global problem. In my mind, the jury is still out...not for me personally, but for everyone else.

Well I know one thing if its all i know. If I am on the wrong side God will correct me.Edited by Thugpreacha, : Spelling

To be honest, if there were no God, I'm not sure how I would react, but it likely would depress me. The secular humanists focus on this life as being the totality of all that is and all that will ever be for humanity. The one podcast I have been listening to, which hardly encapsulates all of secular humanism, had a good show the other day which I will share with you. Listen if you have time.
Why don't you become a Unitarian Universalist?

or it shows that there is a universal evil. I believe though cannot obviously prove that God created the possibility of evil which was actualized initially by rebel spirits and inherited by humans. Faith is right. Jesus Christ, God's incarnate character, was and is the solution. I realize that the whole story sounds quaint and archaic to some. I also realize that I will never find a way to prove it to anybody.You will go on thinking it all a made-up fairytale and I will continue studying the apologists, challenging jar and ringo on Biblical interpretation, and listening to Faith, our champion poster of all. But you guys have to admit---she has worked very hard to attempt to be civil and not assassinate personal character. She and I may not agree on Biblical Creationism, but we do likely agree on the saving grace of Jesus Christ. I too would likely think it all a made-up story had I not gotten saved in 1993. Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

The podcaster actually comes to the same conclusion..UU is not for him.

So you think organized religion is evil? OK, I will go with that for a moment. You think that the whole idea of God, as a Creator of all seen and unseen is made up? Not so sure thats logical. God is as likely as not. Not sure what creeds you mean. Even jar calls himself a cradle creedal Christian. Do you perhaps mean the sinners prayer? Or are you one of those progressive thinkers that believs humans are just evoloving animals with a developing mind? I argue that there is ample evidence that we are by nature selfish, competitive, and greedy. But lets assume for a minute that Jesus Christ is nothing more than a hypothetical idea. The human character of a Creator. You say the whole marketing ploy is evil, do you not? So tell me what is so wrong with a freethinker such as yourself acknowledging in their mind the premise that if there was a Creator of all seen and unseen and if this Creator chose to intervene in one planets development by becoming human and meeting the people where they were at and inviting people to believe in Him, through which a mental active connection or awareness could be established between that human and the Creator...why on earth is that type of a hypothetical surrender a bad thing? If it turned out not to be real, no loss. If it did turn out to be real, what harm could it cause? The only reason that I would see for anyone resisting such an offer was that they trusted their own ability more than they would trust that of a Creator...which to me sounds arrogant, short-sighted, and foolish. You might counter-argue that humans would be foolish to give their internal authority and control over to an unknown presence...sorta like handing your brain to an Alien from a UFO, so I suppose that in the final analysis surrender should only be done to something you trust and know. You guys always always always bring up evidence, as if evidence is the only human standard to be trusted. Yet why would you call my hypothetical evil? Because of what religion has done in human history?

I believe that Hell was never directly created for humans. Humans only end up there by doing the obviously stupid move of refusing to acknowledge Jesus

Not at all. Humans used the threat to get people into their clubs. Im talking about the reason for Hell to begin with and its simply a place for other spirits who rebel against Gods authority. Jesus was sent as a human to humans since there is no way people would have listened to a cloud or a booming voice. Following Jesus or accepting Him is hardly a threat. Its like choosing oxygen. Why on earth would anybody freely choose to breathe anything else?

You just can't wrap your mind around God being the only option, preferring what you think is the reality that we are only betrothed to humans.If you cant believe in God, at least use your imagination. The default was that humans would never make it long term without Divine help.Hell was only a place to dump the rebel angels and spirits. You cant obviously allow them to run around the house any more than letting rats run around yours.

The whole point is that you don't know it to be a lie. You have chosen that line of reasoning by falling for the sketchy evidence of mythicists.I suppose I should just leave you alone, however. You are free to believe what you want. Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

Actually that makes sense. That might just work for you. I certainly don't believe that my God would send you to hell for it.