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Author Topic:   A Believers Critique Of The Humanist Manifesto
Phat
Member
Posts: 15474
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 149 of 175 (866887)
11-16-2019 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Faith
11-16-2019 7:59 PM


SENSORS & CENSORS
Evidently Percy feels as if you are unrepentant over your choice of words and he thus totally censors your posts for the reason that people are now never forced to see your words unless they really want to see them. Perhaps he grew tired of being personally slandered by you and felt as if others may also feel that way. If he simply suspended you or banned you, it would give you cause to claim martyrdom, so he is allowing you the choice of leaving or not...only insisting that if you do stay you must stop attacking everybody who is of a different political persuasion to yourself. I personally think it is a bit extreme, but I can see his logic. Perhaps he feels as if you could change if you really wanted to and it is just that you refuse to change. I tend to attack nonbelievers myself, so I too will have to work on my tact.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Faith, posted 11-16-2019 7:59 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by Faith, posted 11-16-2019 8:41 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15474
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 162 of 175 (866925)
11-17-2019 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by jar
11-16-2019 7:53 PM


Re: Back towards the topic.
jar writes:

The issue is testing what the Apologists say and so far you have not presented even one example of an Apologist that stands up to even cursory scrutiny.

As I have tried to tell you over and over and over again. Christianity is not fully supportable by or through evidence. Christianity is a tested belief. A belief validated through scripture, the experience of believers, and countless testimonies that corroborate each other despite having separate incidents and locations. I realize that you actually laugh at this type of Christianity. (or call it sad and pitiful, for some odd reason) I feel that you have never allowed yourself to believe anything without evidence. Its almost as if you have to actually see an event happen before you will ever allow it to be true in your mind. In addition, much of what you believe has been concluded through evidence, logic, and reason. I'm not saying you are wrong, though I'm saying that what you consider foolish may, in fact, be the right answers.

And recently you brought up the Harvard Divinity Schools synopsis of the humanist manifesto. From that article:

Recurring themes of the Humanist Manifestos include agreement on the dismissal of the supernatural, the centrality of human potential, and the need for a global community that seeks to maximize the good of humanity.
Supernatural manifestations are one of the clearest signs that point to the reality of God's presence among us. To dismiss these simply on the lack of objective measurable evidence is willful ignorance at best. Granted much of it is faked...but I don't believe that all of it is. Human potential is nice, but throwing God away is not the answer. Atheists always claim to be a large minority, but atheism is gaining ground intellectually largely due to the efforts of Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, and Dennet. The Four Horsemen are a big threat. Though you claim to be a believer, you lean more towards their side than you do the apologists, not all of whom lie and misrepresent anything. Why you and Theodoric claim they do cause a call for evidence.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by jar, posted 11-16-2019 7:53 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by jar, posted 11-17-2019 1:52 PM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15474
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 167 of 175 (866962)
11-18-2019 1:39 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by jar
11-17-2019 1:52 PM


Bart Campolo and Secular Humanism Revisited.
I will start a new topic. This topic should focus more on the criticisms and reviews of Secular Humanism. As everyone following my posts knows, I did present an apologist on behalf of secular humanism-Bart Campolo. I have been listening to his podcasts, and am beginning to lean a bit towards the idea that God can and will use other religions to bring his people to Him. As everyone may know, Barts Father was an evangelist--Tony Campolo.
Here is a good podcast which he has done:
Listen to "428: High profile deconversions and secular 'churches'" on Spreaker.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by jar, posted 11-17-2019 1:52 PM jar has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by Phat, posted 11-18-2019 5:09 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15474
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 168 of 175 (866967)
11-18-2019 5:09 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by Phat
11-18-2019 1:39 AM


The Coming Apocalypse: Secular Humanist Version.
Tonight I listened to another podcast by noted secular humanist Bart Campolo. It appears that they too think the world might end. AZ Paul3 and I have discussed apocalyptic teachings before. Tangle, pay attention. You always think that it is the Charismaniacs who squawk about the world ending, but the secular humanists discuss it also---as well as bringing up some positive outlooks in the midst of it all.
quote:
The earth is in trouble and nobody seems to care. That's the observation of Josie, 15, who called the podcast after hearing more and more about humanity's biggest challenges during science class:

Listen to "407: How to cope with coming apocalypse" on Spreaker.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Phat, posted 11-18-2019 1:39 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by Tangle, posted 11-18-2019 9:49 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 170 by ringo, posted 11-18-2019 11:18 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15474
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 175 of 175 (872217)
02-22-2020 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by jar
08-20-2016 10:07 PM


REMIX In 2020. Aggressive Populism vs Kinder Gentler Humanism
Phat in August of 2016 writes:

Everything that I have read from Biblical Christians (who critics call conservative, uninformed, and in a realm of fantasy versus reality) indicates that the world will, by and large, reject all forms of organized religion due to the fundamentalist oppressive nature of its tenets and will embrace a form of belief in the human-animal and our collective potential known as secular humanism.

What does the evidence show us regarding international relations, global finance, the steady decline of the United States both morally and financially, and the rise of false religion the world over?

Are the secular humanists right? Are religion and ancient beliefs threatening a logical and rational future for our planet and ourselves?

Or are the Christian literalists right? Are we all doomed to a bleak future by our actions of rejecting God and seeking to deify ourselves as the ultimate source of wisdom and logic?

Note that this was shortly before Donald Trump got elected. The world changed after that.

jar, in 2016 BT (Before Trump) writes:

Speaking as a Christian and Theist, the evidence seems to show that overall, membership in some religious organization is still relatively common and strong but where is the problem if religions were abandoned? (...)the evidence shows us that international relations have never been as peaceful and cooperative as they are today. Nor is there any evidence of a decline of the United States morally or financially. The most common false religion today seems to be "Biblical Evangelical Fundamentalist Christianity" perhaps followed at a great distance by Radical Fundamentalist Islam.

Has your perspective changed any since the Trump Effect clouded the intelligence of the media-at-large? At best, I argue that international relations have soured a bit, though the dictators and populists seem to have loosely united throughout the globe.

The End Timers are oddly silent as long as they are making money, and the apocalyptic pronouncements have not focused on leaders such as Mr. Trump. The evangelicals consider him to be a savior type of leader sent by God. This has continued to puzzle me and sets a red light off in my head. Yet I myself get angry if the prospect of actually having to live through times of scarcity is even suggested. I fear I would become an irrational populist reactionary myself---and that is unsettling.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by jar, posted 08-20-2016 10:07 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
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