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Author Topic:   Faith vs Facts Opinion Piece
Phat
Member
Posts: 18300
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 6 of 15 (866963)
11-18-2019 1:57 AM


Unevidenced Beliefs
Perhaps a better name for this discussion is Beliefs Unevidenced: Still Valid?
I am always confronted with the demand for objective evidence whenever I present any sort of positive truth claims regarding Biblical Christianity. My only defense is that some things cannot ever be evidenced. This does not make them invalid, in my opinion. I actually experienced some of them. In other words, there are definite experiences that I have had or been witness to that occurred when I was of sound mind. The question for this topic is whether an unevidenced belief can ever be considered valid.
Moreover, people’s reliance on supernatural explanations increases as they age. It may be tempting to think that children are more likely than adults to reach out to magic to explain something and that they increasingly put that mind-set to the side as they grow up, but the reverse is true. It’s the young kids who seem skeptical when researchers ask them about gods and ancestors, and the adults who seem clear and firm. It seems that supernatural ideas do things for adults they do not yet do for children.
I can wholeheartedly agree with the above observation. To be honest, if some evil skeptic tied me up and forced me to watch hours and hours of supposed evidence showing supernatural manifestations to be false, it would crush my soul. I think, upon reflection, that Christianity appeals to me because of the ultimate eternal promise. It's not enough to just belong to the local do-gooders club where we feed people every day. If I died having done that, it would obviously be well and good, but if upon dying I found out that this life was all there ever was and that humanity ceased to exist after death, I would feel very hurt. I suppose at least the people whom I fed felt better---at least while they were alive.
Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by ringo, posted 11-18-2019 11:06 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18300
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 7 of 15 (866964)
11-18-2019 2:34 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Theodoric
11-10-2019 10:48 AM


Re: Disagree with the premise
Theodoric writes:
I dispute the implication you are making that non-believers need to give fundies a pass because of their beliefs. If they are wrong they are wrong and should be called out.
Agreed. I do not expect you to give me any more of a pass than I give secular humanists. I have reached out and studied more of what they believe. In fact, I heard a great podcast on Humanize Me of whose link I will share, for those interested:
Listen to "333: When I Spoke in Tongues, with Jessica Wilbanks" on Spreaker.
If you deny factual evidence because of your belief you should be called out.
There is no factual information that is conclusive. Thats my point.
If you spew hate and disinformation you should be called out. Facts dont change because of your beliefs or anyone else's beliefs.
Agreed. Spewing hate is not good. That includes hatred of believers simply because you see them as arrogant or biased against your favorite cultural god.
There is no exception to reality because of unevidenced, counter factual beliefs.
Again, there are no facts that are conclusive. All that the critics have are interpretations of scriptural authorship and reasons why it is wrong. The arguments are only going to sway those predisposed not to believe. We have every right to believe what we want and to share that with others. If you don't want to listen, it is not I who will leave the room. Out of courtesy, I will shut up, but you and your activists will never force me to take my ideas elsewhere. just so you know.
I agree that trying to change fundie minds is mostly a waste of time.
It's just as hard to penetrate your thick skull and angry mind! But enough fussing. I apologize. I agree that you shouldn't roll over if I or others spew hate or disinformation, but again, we live in a marketplace of ideas and your disinformation is as bad as my disinformation.
We should and must continue to challenge their rejection of scientific evidence and their promotion of ignorance and hate.
You seem to think that we always insist on spewing hate. I will admit that you push my buttons but I don't hate you or anyone else. You just annoy me at times.
You can revel in your own ignorance but do not expect it to go unchallenged.
Back atcha. Quid pro Quo, Dr.Lector?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Theodoric, posted 11-10-2019 10:48 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Theodoric, posted 11-18-2019 8:45 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18300
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 12 of 15 (867006)
11-19-2019 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by ringo
11-18-2019 11:06 AM


Re: Unevidenced Beliefs
well there is no evidence there either.
You really need to quit clinging to evidence as your only standard., You will never find enough.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by ringo, posted 11-18-2019 11:06 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by ringo, posted 11-19-2019 10:40 AM Phat has not replied

  
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