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Author Topic:   Mere Christianity
ringo
Member
Posts: 17665
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 16 of 22 (866977)
11-18-2019 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Thugpreacha
11-17-2019 6:41 PM


Re: What Humans Must Change: (Lewis The Honest Apologist)
Phat writes:

... I have said before, objective evidence is not possible when it comes to validation of belief, and this fact in no way makes a belief claim "dishonest."


But objective evidence can invalidate a belief. When somebody feeds the hungry, etc., you can see who is doing it. That's objective evidence. If you pretend that "God made him do it", that's ignoring the objective evidence. That's dishonest.

Phat writes:

I have had several incidents where someone who never calls me called on a day that I needed something which they then provided, be it a ride, or a word of knowledge regarding a specific situation, or even money.


And how many incidents have you had when you needed one of those things and didn't get it?

Phat writes:

This is not being dishonest. I have seen enough to convince me.


The easiest person to convince is yourself. Fooling yourself is as dishonest as fooling anybody else.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-17-2019 6:41 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 11-18-2019 11:03 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31770
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 17 of 22 (866979)
11-18-2019 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by ringo
11-18-2019 10:48 AM


Re: What Humans Must Change: (Lewis The Honest Apologist)
ringo writes:

Fooling yourself is as ********* as fooling anybody else.

But a whole lot easier.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by ringo, posted 11-18-2019 10:48 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 5049
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 18 of 22 (866981)
11-18-2019 11:18 AM


Emeth
I had a couple of minutes so I thought I'd interject myself into the conversation.

I don't see it as being an argument about which god is the true god. The differences we have is what is the true nature of God and how does that impact how we live our lives.

In another thread jar mentioned Emeth who is a character in Lewis' book "THe Last Battle"

It turns out that Emeth has his own wiki page. Here is the link

The following is what happens to Emeth after he has gone through the stable and has entered into the new world which is Lewis' metaphorical version of the next life or what happens with the renewal of all things.

quote:
So I went over much grass and many flowers and among all kinds of wholesome and delectable tree till lo! In a narrow place between two rocks there came to meet me a great Lion. The speed of him was like an ostrich, and his size was an elephant’s; his hair was like pure gold that is liquid in the furnace. He was more terrible than the Flaming Mountain of Langour, and in beauty he surpassed all that is in the world even as the rose in bloom surpasses the dust of the desert.

Then I fell at his feet and thought, Surely this is the hour of death, for the Lion (who is worthy of all honour) will know that I have served Tash all my days and not him. Nevertheless, it is better to see the Lion and die than to be Tisroc of the world and live and not to have seen him.

But the Glorious One bent down his golden head and touched my forehead with his tongue and said, Son thou art welcome. But I said, Alas, Lord, I am no son of thine but the servant of Tash. He answered, Child, all the service thou hast done to Tash, I account as service done to me.

Then by reason of my great desire for wisdom and understanding, I overcame my fear and questioned the Glorious One and said, Lord, is it then true, as the Ape said, that thou and Tash are one? The Lion growled so that the earth shook (but his wrath was not against me) and said, It is false. Not because he and I are one, but because we are opposites, I take to me the services which thou hast done to him. For I and he are of such different kinds that no service which is vile can be done to me, and none which is not vile can be done to him. Therefore if any man swear by Tash and keep his oath for the oath’s sake, it is by me that he has truly sworn, though he know it not, and it is I who reward him. And if any man do a cruelty in my name, then, though he says he says the name Aslan, it is Tash whom he serves and by Tash his deed is accepted.

Dost thou understand , Child? I said, Lord, thou knowest how much I understand. But I said also (for the truth constrained me), Yet I have been seeking Tash all my days. Beloved, said the Glorious One, unless thy desire had been for me thou wouldst not have sought so long and so truly. For all find what they truly seek.



He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-18-2019 12:40 PM GDR has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13373
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 19 of 22 (866988)
11-18-2019 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by GDR
11-18-2019 11:18 AM


Re: Emeth
I can see the wisdom in such a belief and it is acceptable to my intuition. It makes jars belief that all religions are represented in Heaven and judged based on works and intention more sensible. I dont understand why jar is so spiteful towards Biblical Christians however. Its like he doesnt trust any of them. They will need salvation by grace if they are like goats. I certainly see bad apples in the bunch but i dont see any reason to indict the lot of them. Apparantly jar is offended by Gods generousity.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by GDR, posted 11-18-2019 11:18 AM GDR has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 31770
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


(2)
Message 20 of 22 (866989)
11-18-2019 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Thugpreacha
11-18-2019 12:40 PM


Re: Emeth
Phat writes:

Apparantly jar is offended by Gods generousity.

Phat, stop making really stupid sophomoric misrepresentations.

I do not address how the Apologists will be judged or even care how they will be judged.

I am offended by their misrepresentation of the Bible, of what is written, by how they market Christianity and by their truly stupid comments like the two RC Sproul quotes in your signature.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-18-2019 12:40 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-18-2019 1:23 PM jar has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13373
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 21 of 22 (866991)
11-18-2019 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by jar
11-18-2019 12:55 PM


Re: Emeth
Neither quote is stupid. They merely reflect a belief. People claim that some things happen randomly and just because they can't prove Gods involvement in no way proves chance. If anything happens purely by chance it would invalidate Gods omnipotence. Any Creator that knows the number of hairs on your head could hypothetically be aware of every action and we believe nothing just happens. When you believe that you are on a slippery slope to unbelief or at least no necessary belief. We believe that belief is necessary for a sound and rational universe. Disagree if you choose but calling it stupid is offensive.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 11-18-2019 12:55 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by jar, posted 11-18-2019 2:52 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31770
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 22 of 22 (866993)
11-18-2019 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Thugpreacha
11-18-2019 1:23 PM


Re: Emeth
Phat writes:

Neither quote is stupid. They merely reflect a belief. People claim that some things happen randomly and just because they can't prove Gods involvement in no way proves chance.


Statistics and reality provide the evidence for chance. Where is the evidence for God's involvement? Yes, it is truly stupid to be charitable; the other option is that it is delusional.

Yawn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry but reality really doesn't care if you are offended and in fact there is not "Right to not be offended".

They are at best, simply stupid as opposed to delusional or a carny conjob.

Edited by jar, : fix quote box


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-18-2019 1:23 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
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