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Author Topic:   A Believers Critique Of The Humanist Manifesto
jar
Member
Posts: 31770
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 166 of 174 (866931)
11-17-2019 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Thugpreacha
11-17-2019 1:25 PM


Re: Back towards the topic.
Phat writes:

Christianity is not fully supportable by or through evidence. Christianity is a tested belief. A belief validated through scripture, the experience of believers, and countless testimonies that corroborate each other despite having separate incidents and locations.

Word Salad with absolutely no meaning.

I am a Christian. I support my position based on what is actually written in the Bible.

So far you have failed to present a single Apologist that seems to believe what is actually written in the Bible.

Phat writes:

Supernatural manifestations are one of the clearest signs that point to the reality of God's presence among us.

Then present that evidence and the evidence that shows it is a supernatural manifestation.

Phat writes:

Though you claim to be a believer, you lean more towards their side than you do the apologists, not all of whom lie and misrepresent anything.

Then present the evidence that shows an Apologist actually supports what is really written in the Bible and does not just make up shit to explain that the Bible does not mean what it actually says?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-17-2019 1:25 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-18-2019 1:39 AM jar has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13373
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 167 of 174 (866962)
11-18-2019 1:39 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by jar
11-17-2019 1:52 PM


Bart Campolo and Secular Humanism Revisited.
I will start a new topic. This topic should focus more on the criticisms and reviews of Secular Humanism. As everyone following my posts knows, I did present an apologist on behalf of secular humanism-Bart Campolo. I have been listening to his podcasts, and am beginning to lean a bit towards the idea that God can and will use other religions to bring his people to Him. As everyone may know, Barts Father was an evangelist--Tony Campolo.
Here is a good podcast which he has done:
Listen to "428: High profile deconversions and secular 'churches'" on Spreaker.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by jar, posted 11-17-2019 1:52 PM jar has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13373
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 168 of 174 (866967)
11-18-2019 5:09 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by Thugpreacha
11-18-2019 1:39 AM


The Coming Apocalypse: Secular Humanist Version.
Tonight I listened to another podcast by noted secular humanist Bart Campolo. It appears that they too think the world might end. AZ Paul3 and I have discussed apocalyptic teachings before. Tangle, pay attention. You always think that it is the Charismaniacs who squawk about the world ending, but the secular humanists discuss it also---as well as bringing up some positive outlooks in the midst of it all.
quote:
The earth is in trouble and nobody seems to care. That's the observation of Josie, 15, who called the podcast after hearing more and more about humanity's biggest challenges during science class:

Listen to "407: How to cope with coming apocalypse" on Spreaker.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-18-2019 1:39 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by Tangle, posted 11-18-2019 9:49 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply
 Message 170 by ringo, posted 11-18-2019 11:18 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7201
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.3


(3)
Message 169 of 174 (866973)
11-18-2019 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 168 by Thugpreacha
11-18-2019 5:09 AM


Re: The Coming Apocalypse: Secular Humanist Version.
There's very good, objective reasons why the entirety of humanity should be discussing how we're affecting our planet and then rolling our sleeves up to do something about it.

That's totally different to fundamentalist idiots telling us that god is going to bring about the end of the world next week because of gay marriage or some other such bollox supposedly written by near cavemen thousands of years ago.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-18-2019 5:09 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17665
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 170 of 174 (866982)
11-18-2019 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 168 by Thugpreacha
11-18-2019 5:09 AM


Re: The Coming Apocalypse: Secular Humanist Version.
Phat writes:

... noted secular humanist Bart Campolo.


Who's noting him?

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-18-2019 5:09 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6881
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 171 of 174 (866985)
11-18-2019 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by ringo
11-18-2019 11:18 AM


Re: The Coming Apocalypse: Secular Humanist Version.
I was thinking the same thing. Never heard of him. I think fundies can not conceive of the idea that no one speaks for atheists or atheism. What ever this guy has to say has nothing to do with what any other humanist or atheist has to say or what they think. These are his viewpoints. There is no humanist or atheist dogma.
Phat is on his apologist kick and he seems to think his view that Ravi the shyster kicked Sam the misogynists' butt(these are not personal attacks against them, it is reasonable conclusion based upon verifiable evidence). It has no bearing on anything. All a humanist apologist can do is defend their own belief set.
He also seems to be obsessed with the "Four Horsemen". This is a media created designation. I know of no one in the atheist world that considers these guys to be leaders of any sort. The only thing I have in common with Sam Harris is that we both do not have a belief in a god. I don't care about anything he writes or says as it has no effect on my belief set.
Here is a difference between believers and nonbelievers. Believers let and expect apologists determine what they believe. Seemingly they have no confidence to make their own decisions or to even read the plain text of their religious tomes. Nonbelievers will listen to defenders of atheist and humanism, but do not and will not adjust their beliefs to what is said and written. Facts and data drive our belief set, not word salad.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by ringo, posted 11-18-2019 11:18 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by AZPaul3, posted 11-18-2019 2:05 PM Theodoric has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4785
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


(2)
Message 172 of 174 (866992)
11-18-2019 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Theodoric
11-18-2019 12:04 PM


Re: The Coming Apocalypse: Secular Humanist Version.
Nonbelievers will listen to defenders of atheist and humanism, but do not and will not adjust their beliefs to what is said and written.

Oh, let's not go that far. We're not obstinate ideologues. We do learn and mature. Especially when we're reading Daniel Dennett. What we don't do is adopt every tennent they spout without considerable thought. Whereas religionists are prone to accept and adopt any tennent their favored nutjob decides to spout just because they spout it.

Ok, so a bit pedantic.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Theodoric, posted 11-18-2019 12:04 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by Theodoric, posted 11-18-2019 2:55 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 174 by FLRW, posted 11-18-2019 5:46 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6881
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 173 of 174 (866994)
11-18-2019 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by AZPaul3
11-18-2019 2:05 PM


Re: The Coming Apocalypse: Secular Humanist Version.
Agreed. Much better than how I put it, but that is the meaning I was actually trying to express.
We listen, learn and mature. What we don't do is take what they say and accept it uncritically.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by AZPaul3, posted 11-18-2019 2:05 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
FLRW
Member
Posts: 31
Joined: 10-08-2007


Message 174 of 174 (866999)
11-18-2019 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by AZPaul3
11-18-2019 2:05 PM


Re: The Coming Apocalypse: Secular Humanist Version.
Human's are only around to create Artificial Intelligence. This is because the Creators could not directly create anything in this simulation we live in. It's time for a better explanation of life than religion can give us. Humans might want to stop this process of making life only livable for rich stupid people.

This message is a reply to:
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