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Author Topic:   Teaching God in schools--science class?
tesla
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Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 1 of 14 (866947)
11-17-2019 8:53 AM


It's been awhile. I'm arguing this on a philosophy site. I was wondering how it would measure up here. I realize my position has changed on many things. Much of that was due to questions and discussions that started here.

I'm Agnostic, Anti-religious, But still believe 'God(s) should be taught in schools. mostly, for the benefit of healthy skepticism.

Science won the argument against doing so. But examine this idea: if in court, will it be the religious who are against it most? or...science?

Should 'God' be taught is school? (Non religiously) - Page 17 - Philosophy Now Forum


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

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AdminPhat
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Posts: 1945
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-03-2004


Message 2 of 14 (866949)
11-17-2019 4:41 PM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Teaching God in schools--science class? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
jar
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Posts: 31770
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 3 of 14 (866952)
11-17-2019 4:50 PM


Background
I think Sacred Studies should be included in a good education. For background see Should Sacred Studies be part of a general public school curricula

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

  
Tangle
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From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.3


(4)
Message 4 of 14 (866965)
11-18-2019 3:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by tesla
11-17-2019 8:53 AM


I don't have a problem with comparative religion being studied in schools, religion is part of all our lives and our history no matter what we believe.

But it would need to be taught in a factual, objective way like all other subjects, include all religions and not be an excuse to promote any particular religious propaganda.

And it would also include atheism and humanism.

Anything that educates believers outside of their highly defended fortress of personal belief has to be a good thing.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


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Thugpreacha
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Posts: 13373
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 5 of 14 (866966)
11-18-2019 4:54 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Tangle
11-18-2019 3:13 AM


I addressed this basic question 14 years ago. I think I sound like I made more sense then I do now.

https://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=msg&t=6709#m203244


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


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Tangle
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From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.3


(3)
Message 6 of 14 (866971)
11-18-2019 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Thugpreacha
11-18-2019 4:54 AM


Phat writes:

I addressed this basic question 14 years ago. I think I sound like I made more sense then I do now.

Over the years I've watched your irrationality increase in direct proportion to your fundamentalism.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-18-2019 4:54 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Taq
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Posts: 8207
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 7 of 14 (867055)
11-19-2019 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by tesla
11-17-2019 8:53 AM


tesla writes:

I'm Agnostic, Anti-religious, But still believe 'God(s) should be taught in schools. mostly, for the benefit of healthy skepticism.

This is where ideology runs into practicality. I would wholeheartedly agree that any well-rounded education should include learning about world religions, but there is no practical way for this to happen in public high schools without angering a significant portion of parents. Jimmy's uber-fundie parents will not be happy about Jimmy learning about Buddhism.

Science didn't kick a Comparative World Religions course out of high schools. Christians did.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


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jar
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Posts: 31770
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 8 of 14 (867056)
11-19-2019 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Taq
11-19-2019 5:34 PM


it would be a good things for society in general
Taq writes:

Science didn't kick a Comparative World Religions course out of high schools. Christians did.

Offending Christians might be a very good thing fo the US, maybe the best thing to happen in at least a century. If that was all that was needed to get the offened parents to pull their little darlings out of public schools and ship them off to some more Avoidance Schools maybe the education system in the US could make great leaps forward.

Let all the parents who prefer fantasy to reality take their kiddies and go; let the kids that are in touch with reality learn to think critically.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Taq
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Posts: 8207
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 9 of 14 (867136)
11-20-2019 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by jar
11-19-2019 5:43 PM


Re: it would be a good things for society in general
jar writes:

If that was all that was needed to get the offened parents to pull their little darlings out of public schools and ship them off to some more Avoidance Schools maybe the education system in the US could make great leaps forward.

What I fear is a society with more anti-vaxxers, climate deniers, and the like. However, school tuition and/or home schooling are beyond the means of many fundy families, so maybe we shouldn't worry too much. If anything, these are reasons to vote against school vouchers for charter . . . I mean avoidance schools.


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 Message 8 by jar, posted 11-19-2019 5:43 PM jar has responded

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jar
Member
Posts: 31770
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 10 of 14 (867137)
11-20-2019 6:27 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Taq
11-20-2019 6:00 PM


Re: it would be a good things for society in general
Taq writes:

What I fear is a society with more anti-vaxxers, climate deniers, and the like.

I'd certainly favor a requirement for full vaccinations before anyone is allowed out in the general public. I have no problem with anti-vaxers as long as they are segregated away from the rest of society.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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AZPaul3
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Posts: 4785
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 11 of 14 (867162)
11-21-2019 5:52 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by jar
11-20-2019 6:27 PM


The "V"
I may have a better idea.

When a child is found to be unvaccinated the parents are charged with child endangerment, the state terminates their parental rights and takes the child into foster care where they are vaccinated. After a few days the child is returned to the parents and the charges dropped with the written/signed understanding that for the next two years, whenever the parent ventures out into the public they must wear a big yellow “V” on their forehead to show how fucking stupid they are.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

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Mikee
Junior Member
Posts: 1
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Joined: 12-04-2019


Message 12 of 14 (868192)
12-08-2019 1:30 PM


I'm not against comparative religion being studied in schools since they have always been a part of us.

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Faith
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Posts: 33880
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 13 of 14 (868200)
12-08-2019 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by AZPaul3
11-21-2019 5:52 AM


Re: The "V"
Sounds pretty fascistic to me. Coercive government that violates the very soul of Constitutional America.

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Faith
Member
Posts: 33880
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 14 of 14 (868201)
12-08-2019 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Mikee
12-08-2019 1:30 PM


Comparative religion in the schools
If they taught the actual reality of the different religions rather than whitewashing parts of them or leaving anything out I'd be for that. As I recall though, a famous book on comparative religions I read years ago did not teach what I later learned to be the essence of Christianity: Jesus' nature as the God-Man who died in the place of sinners to save us from sin's consequences. Islam's principles of jihad and the establishment of the worldwide caliphate by violence if necessary could be spiritualized away very easily too.

I think the problem may be that to do this right would require an author or authors who really know the religions from the inside, and what we get instead is "scholars" who don't get it at all and misrepresent it.

Maybe that would be better than nothing, however.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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