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Author Topic:   President Trump endorses socialized medicine.
AnswersInGenitals
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Posts: 529
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 5.7


(1)
Message 16 of 30 (867052)
11-19-2019 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Faith
11-19-2019 10:39 AM


Re: For All? Who Pays?
And they shouldn't be able to get away with such cheap medicines in other countries since it was the US that developed them and that's why it costs US so much.

I have to agree with Faith here. Take AZPaul3’s example in post#5 on aspirin. Aspirin was first made publicly available by Bayer AG and originally the only aspirin you’d find in the drugstore was Bayer aspirin. ‘Bayer’ almost became synonymous with ‘aspirin’ the way that Kleenex became synonymous with facial tissue. And, as its name implies, Bayer AG is a good old red-blooded American company!


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jar
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Posts: 31770
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 17 of 30 (867053)
11-19-2019 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by AnswersInGenitals
11-19-2019 4:51 PM


Re: For All? Who Pays?
As American as BIC pens and the diesel engine.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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nwr
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Posts: 5587
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


(1)
Message 18 of 30 (867057)
11-19-2019 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by AnswersInGenitals
11-18-2019 4:03 PM


Does this portend that President Trump will run his 2020 reelection campaign on a Medicare for All promise and that Medicare for All will be a key plank in the Republican platform?

No, it doesn't.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

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AZPaul3
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Posts: 4785
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


(2)
Message 19 of 30 (867069)
11-19-2019 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by AnswersInGenitals
11-19-2019 4:51 PM


Re: For All? Who Pays?
And, as its name implies, Bayer AG is a good old red-blooded American company!

I know you like to kid, AIG, but people are going to actually believe this.

Bayer Aktiengesellschaft ist eine deutsche firma.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

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AZPaul3
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Posts: 4785
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 20 of 30 (867070)
11-19-2019 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by jar
11-19-2019 4:58 PM


Re: For All? Who Pays?
As American as BIC pens and the diesel engine.

Ok guys. I give up.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

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vimesey
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From: Birmingham, England
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(4)
Message 21 of 30 (867082)
11-20-2019 1:51 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Faith
11-19-2019 10:39 AM


Re: For All? Who Pays?
And they shouldn't be able to get away with such cheap medicines in other countries since it was the US that developed them and that's why it costs US so much.

This is a very complex area, but some simplification makes quite a powerful point about the difference between liberal and purely capitalist democracies - or between the left and the right, if you prefer.

Liberal Democracy

Drug company: “Hey government. We need your help. We need you to introduce strong copyright laws to help us to protect our seed investment when spending millions researching new drugs. The free market doesn’t do the trick, and we need government to step in and protect us.”

Government: “Fair enough. We the people need these drugs developed, so we’ll do that.”

Drug company: “Excellent. And we need you to step in and protect us, so that we can make obscene profits on the back of those strong copyright laws, because that’s what a free market economy allows.”

Government: “Nope - you don’t get it both ways. If you want government to intervene to protect your business model, then we get to intervene on a basis that allows us to regulate the profits we’re protecting for you, so that you make a fair and reasonable return, but you don’t take the piss. Call it a negotiation - you need government’s help, and we need yours. We’ll find a fair way of doing it.”

Libertarian free market economy

Drug company: “Hey government. We need your help. We need you to introduce strong copyright laws to help us to protect our seed investment when spending millions researching new drugs. The free market doesn’t do the trick, and we need government to step in and protect us.”

Government: “Sure, whatever you want.”

Drug company: “Excellent. And we need you to step in and protect us, so that we can make obscene profits on the back of those strong copyright laws, because that’s what a free market economy allows.”

Government: “Sure, whatever you want.”

Edited by vimesey, : No reason given.

Edited by vimesey, : No reason given.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

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caffeine
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Posts: 1731
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 6.0


Message 22 of 30 (867085)
11-20-2019 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Faith
11-19-2019 10:39 AM


Re: For All? Who Pays?
The 10 most commonly prescribed medicines on the British NHS are:

Simvastatin
Aspirin
Levothyroxine sodium
Omeprazole
Ramipril
Amlopidine
Paracetamol
Salbutamol
Lansoprazole
Atorvastatin

That's 4 developed in the US, 3 in Germany, one each in Sweden, Japan and the UK.

But that's not the important thing here. What's important is that all of these patents are expired. That's not a weird freak of the UK. Most of the drugs prescribed everywhere are no longer under patent.

But even that's not the important point here. Prescription drugs do not explain the huge disparity in the cost of healthcare between the US and the rest of the world, since they only account for 7% of US healthcare costs.


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PaulK
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Posts: 15643
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Member Rating: 2.8


Message 23 of 30 (867088)
11-20-2019 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by caffeine
11-20-2019 9:00 AM


Re: For All? Who Pays?
The US situation is worse than that. Prices can vary wildly even for common treatments - Bonkers pricing of free flu shots (Ars Technica)

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jar
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Posts: 31770
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


(2)
Message 24 of 30 (867089)
11-20-2019 10:38 AM


Repeating a suggested solution.
I have suggested a process, procedure, model, method or mechanism that would possibly be a path to providing at least second world class Health Care in the US. I think most recently it was in Message 6 of Health Insurance in the U.S. but I believe it's worth repeating here.

Look at what the rest of the world does.

It really is simple. Pick one and do what they did.

And what process should congress use to pick the plan?

The House has 435 members. There are thirty two countries on the list (a lits that was included above). Divide the House Membership up by drawing names out of a hat into thirty two teams of 13-14 members each. Assign one nation to each team and send them and their wives off on a vacation to their assigned nation.

When they return they must each prepare a Bill supporting choosing the plan from their assigned nation.

All thirty-two bills get sent to the Senate where the Senate passes one bill that then becomes the US Universal Healthcare Plan for a term of not less than ten years.

At the end of every ten year period the Congress can vote to repeat the process or renew the US Healthcare Plan.

The actual number of plans to look at can vary but it should include at least all the nations that rank higher than the US on Health Care outcomes.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4785
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


(3)
Message 25 of 30 (867090)
11-20-2019 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by jar
11-20-2019 10:38 AM


Re: Repeating a suggested solution.
A small alteration, please.

We send both Reps and Senators, only Republicans, only to Iraq and once they've left we put their names on the no fly list and bar them from entering the country again.

I like that.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

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AnswersInGenitals
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Posts: 529
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 5.7


(1)
Message 26 of 30 (867107)
11-20-2019 2:53 PM


Trump hospitalization update.
Rumors out of the White House are that President Trump was rushed to the hospital when he got an erection that lasted for over 4 hours. Trump’s wife Melania quickly dispelled these rumors when she stated that Trump would be tweeting like crazy if he ever got an erection that lasted over 4 seconds.

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ringo
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Posts: 17665
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 27 of 30 (867108)
11-20-2019 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by AnswersInGenitals
11-20-2019 2:53 PM


Re: Trump hospitalization update.
AIG writes:

... Trump would be tweeting like crazy if he ever got an erection that lasted over 4 seconds.


No doubt the tweets would outlast the erection. As always with Trump, this tweet is worse than his peck.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

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Taq
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Posts: 8207
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(4)
Message 28 of 30 (867110)
11-20-2019 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by jar
11-20-2019 10:38 AM


Re: Repeating a suggested solution.
jar writes:

It really is simple. Pick one and do what they did.

Singapore has been put forward as a good model, for what it's worth. You can get basic care through government healthcare at a private hospital and a doctor of the government's choosing, or you can spend more and see the doctor you want to see, and better hospital accommodations. You get the level of care that you want, but have to pay more for more luxurious care. You would have a "Medicare-for-All" basic plan, and people could still buy private insurance for the care of their choice if they so choose. The biggest benefit would be getting everyone in the same insurance pool so there isn't a bunch of sick people in one risk pool.

The biggest hurdle the US has to get over is price control. At some point, the government has to step in and standardize costs, and keep dialing prices back over time as the industry adapts.


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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4785
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 29 of 30 (867160)
11-21-2019 5:04 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by AnswersInGenitals
11-20-2019 2:53 PM


Re: Trump hospitalization update.
Rumors out of the White House are that President Trump was rushed to the hospital when he got an erection ...

Oh, so he wasn't having a heart attack he was having a hard attack. Got it.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

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vimesey
Member
Posts: 1017
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 7.2


(3)
Message 30 of 30 (867165)
11-21-2019 6:54 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by AZPaul3
11-21-2019 5:04 AM


Re: Trump hospitalization update.
I'm not sure that a rush of 2cc of blood would justify a hospital visit, though.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by AZPaul3, posted 11-21-2019 5:04 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
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