Testing The Christian Apologists

It is.In fact, even if it wasn't there would be no way to tell that it wasn't. You can't use the book to back up the book. If there is a Satan, he's the pied piper of Christians.

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Matthew 24:23-24 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

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It's the "elect" (or those who think they are) who will be deceived, not the ones who don't believe in Christ at all. See above. The arrogance doesn't suit you.

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We will never convince them because they think that spiritual discernment is invented

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If the Bible was supernaturally consistent as Faith claimed then you wouldn’t need spiritual discernment to see it.

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They critically evaluate the Bible as if it is an ordinary book

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And that is the only way to read it that could prove Faith’s point.Spiritual discernment is just a boast to justify twisting the Bible.
We know that neither of you have any special capability to see tha truth, just blindness to the text. Faith spent ages arguing that Isaiah 7:14 was only about Jesus (which makes no sense in context and that isn’t even her worst misreading). You, Phat have intentionally left out part of Genesis 3:5, misrepresenting what the serpent said.Not impressive.

The reason that you do is because not everyone automatically has the Spirit. I know that critics will say that this exclusivity is a cheap marketing ploy, but I have seen evidence of it. I saw it in myself. Jesus even said that many are called and few chosen. Not everyone gets it. You could be a disciplined scholar of many Biblical texts and yet not have the Holy Spirit. It is not an inclusive reality.

I might add that just because one has the Spirit does not make them an expert on the bible. All it does it allow them to know Jesus rather than just knowing about a character in a book. jar will again trot out the question of how one knows that they know, but I'm getting tired of trying to explain it. You either have it or you don't. And it's not my problem or responsibility to teach you how to get it. It is a matter of belief over evidence, however, which is why many of you are excluded.

I know, and i apologize. I just get frustrated with these arguments. At some point, I just need to walk away.

Who decides who has this ghost thing you speak of?

LOLPhat Phat Phat.Is what is written in the Bible what is actually written in the Bible?
Are there multiple Canons?
Are there multiple religions?
Are there multiple sects?Shall we go on?

Yes, lets go on. I will ask you a question. And don't answer it by citing evidence. Answer it as to your personal belief.Does the character of Jesus live outside of the book? Your answer to that will then determine whether we will ever agree or remain miles apart.

I can't answer a question that has absolutely no meaning. Does the character of Sherlock Holmes live outside of the book?Have I ever asked what it means to claim Jesus lives and have you ever offered an explanation?Edited by jar, : even ---> ever

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The reason that you do is because not everyone automatically has the Spirit.

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Again, Faith was trying to use this alleged consistency to prove that the a Bible had supernatural origins. If you need some supernatural ability to see that it doesn’t mean what it says to see this consistency it isn’t much of an argument.

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I know that critics will say that this exclusivity is a cheap marketing ploy, but I have seen evidence

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Silly misreadings are not evidence if the Spirit. Or even a Lying Spirit (although the latter is at least a little less implausible).

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You could be a disciplined scholar of many Biblical texts and yet not have the Holy Spirit.

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You can be a fool he thinks he can get away with obvious misrepresentation but that isn’t a reason to think you have anything other than human folly.

Just a thought on this The question is how are we to understand the Bible, particularly as Christians.I know the bible says that the Scriptures are inspired by God. I'd suggest that Beethoven's gift of music was inspired by God, but that doesn't mean that it couldn't have been made better. I'd suggest as well that C S Lewis was inspired by God to write what he did, but that doesn't mean that what he wrote was inerrant or dictated by God.I suggest that we should read the Bible as a library of books written with numerous motivations, but that God can use literature full of human biases and even failings to inform us and to change our hearts.Let's look at what Paul, (assuming he wrote it), says in 2nd Corinthians.

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1 Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you? 2 You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everyone. 3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 4 Such confidence we have through Christ before God. 5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenantnot of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
The Greater Glory of the New Covenant
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! 12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

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The message is clear. It isn't about what is written in a book, but about what is written on our hearts. Hopefully the Spirit, (or that still small voice of God), will speak to us through the Scriptures and change our hearts to hearts that love others, even at the expense of the self.The Bible can and has been used to justify almost anything you like when we use it as a rule book. This is why I think it is important that we stand against Biblical inerrancy as it not only disavows what Jesus actually taught but that it actually hinders the work of the God-given vocation that we as humans are called to. That vocation is the thoughtful and loving stewardship of all of God's creation.

Good question.Let's look at a couple of scriptures.What's that you say? Don't preach? Keep in mind that the "ghost thing" is in the book. So we need to cite the book in order to answer your question.And keep in mind that I am answering the question for myself. I think I know you well enough to know that nothing I say will affect you except to satisfy your request that I answer your question in my own words, without showing you some video or podcast. My answer only reflects my belief. there is no fact that is objective that would or could answer your question.I believe that many people who believe that there is a God seek to know this Deity. For me personally, when I first felt as if I had an internal communion with God, I felt a sweeping change--an epiphany of sorts. In and of itself, this is nothing unique nor a case for verification. It has been an awareness that I am capable of representing Christ on any given day from that point forward. Granted i don't always do it. You see the worst side of me often, and I'm not proud of that fact though I honestly believe it is common among humans. What I do know about myself is that I never had this feeling of inner communion or confidence at any time before that day when I felt the change.A scripture comes to mind which feels good to say at this point---perhaps to support my explanation. Its a tidy little scripture which critics will charge as coming from a redacted book and which markets that particular Jesus...but I have chosen to ignore those arguments against the power of and validity of the scripture. So in a strict sense, as an answer, the critics will say that we ourselves crown ourselves with this "ghost" character. My belief, however, is that the character lives outside of the book and that He Himself equips those who believe.Is that an honest answer? Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

This is in the faith forum. Preach away.

So this great commission is what? Just Christians trying to rub it in?I’m saved and you’re not. Na-na na-na na na! Precisely the reason to chuck the whole thing into the waste bin.

So you have no answer? These words you strung together do not answer the question. You clearly stated that some people have this spirit and some do not. You make it clear that some people that think they do have the spirit do not.
Again I ask, who decides who has the spirit? You state you know you do, but seemingly do not believe others that say they do. Why is your personal subjective belief more "real" than theirs? Can you tell by their actions? If so, do not your "unchristian" acts exclude you from having this spirit thing?
So far you have not answered. All you have done is string words together.