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Author Topic:   Dominant Force in West Today According to Dennis Prager is Fear of Left
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 188 of 308 (867101)
11-20-2019 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by Phat
11-19-2019 10:48 PM


Re: Christian liberalism is an aberration
Phat writes:
... I will continue studying the apologists, challenging jar and ringo on Biblical interpretation....
I'm still waiting for you to present anything resembling a challenge.
Phat writes:
... and listening to Faith, our champion poster of all.
Faith is the last person you should listen to. Shame on you.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Phat, posted 11-19-2019 10:48 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 217 of 308 (867176)
11-21-2019 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 208 by Phat
11-21-2019 4:09 AM


Re: Christian fundamentalim is abhorrent
Phat writes:
Hell was only a place to dump the rebel angels and spirits. You cant obviously allow them to run around the house any more than letting rats run around yours.
Again you depict a very puny god, one who can't control his own house without exterminating every threat.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Phat, posted 11-21-2019 4:09 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by Phat, posted 11-21-2019 8:22 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 229 of 308 (867220)
11-22-2019 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 220 by Phat
11-21-2019 8:22 PM


Re: Christian fundamentalim is abhorrent
Phat writes:
... you depict a very inclusive God who lets all sorts of carny barkers and seducing spirits run around His house and happily co-exist with Him...
And why not?
Phat writes:
... diluting His message...
But you're the one who says the message isn't important.
Phat writes:
... clouding the clear teaching...
A large part of that teaching is love thine enemy:
quote:
Matthew 5:44-45 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
How can you love your enemies if you leave them out in the cold?
Phat writes:
Heaven is not simply some giant social club where various demons can hawk their wares along with the Truth and purity it represents.
According to Matthew, it pretty much is.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Phat, posted 11-21-2019 8:22 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by Phat, posted 11-22-2019 3:16 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 232 of 308 (867244)
11-22-2019 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by Phat
11-22-2019 3:16 PM


Re: Christian fundamentalim is abhorrent
Phat writes:
Would you let your teenage daughter stay out all hours of the night? Would you let her smoke at age 13? Would you let her use marijuana? Would you let her stay the night with boyfriends?
How would you stop her? Teenagers do those things. You can't physically stop them. You could kick them out of the house, which seems to be what you're suggesting.
Most human parents try to be a good example - your God might want to try that.
And most human parents try to make their children aware of the consequences of their actions. Tell them not to eat the fruit and the first thing they'll do is eat the fruit - and then they'll have the knowledge of good and evil.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by Phat, posted 11-22-2019 3:16 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by Phat, posted 11-22-2019 4:54 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 234 of 308 (867251)
11-22-2019 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Phat
11-22-2019 4:41 PM


Re: Christian fundamentalim is abhorrent
Phat writes:
... think of what a Father would consider when adopting kids. You don't just pick anyone.
You pick the one that needs a home. Often that is the one with behaviour problems.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Phat, posted 11-22-2019 4:41 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 243 of 308 (867299)
11-23-2019 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 235 by Phat
11-22-2019 4:54 PM


Re: Christian fundamentalim is abhorrent
Phat writes:
In our analogy, they are not yet even IN the house. They (we) are being considered for adoption.
That doesn't work. Jesus told us to pray, "Our Father," so we are already his children. I don't think the "adoption" mentioned in your apologist quotes is what we think of adoption today.
Phat writes:
How was jesus not a good example? Certainly better than Chutulu or loki.
You're not setting the bar very high.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Phat, posted 11-22-2019 4:54 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 245 of 308 (867301)
11-23-2019 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 239 by Faith
11-23-2019 9:01 AM


Re: Cosmic Tyrant an invention of atheists
Faith writes:
At least if you're going to keep putting down Christianity you should put it down for what it actually says.
There are a lot of discrepancies between what the Bible says and what "Christianity" says and what you say. You're talking about one minority cult of Christianity.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by Faith, posted 11-23-2019 9:01 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by Faith, posted 11-23-2019 11:00 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 249 of 308 (867305)
11-23-2019 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 241 by Faith
11-23-2019 10:08 AM


Re: There is no Fall in Genesis 2&3!
Faith writes:
But it is explicit in the New Testament where Paul says it was sin that brought death into the world.
quote:
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Of course sin entered the world by one man because there was only one man in the story. That's how we know it's only a story, because there has never been a time when there was only one man in the world. Biology just doesn't work that way.
As for death, even in the story we know Adam and Eve didn't die a physical death that same day. You claim they died a "spiritual" death but why do you stretch that to them causing physical death of animals?

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by Faith, posted 11-23-2019 10:08 AM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 251 of 308 (867307)
11-23-2019 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 244 by Faith
11-23-2019 10:51 AM


Re: There is no Fall in Genesis 2&3!
Faith writes:
Seems to me you are the one who misrepresents the Byble and really needs to learn a few things.
I had to quote this.
I know you've never heard of irony but I think it's funny that you have to misrepresent the Bible as "Byble" to talk about misrepresenting the Bible.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by Faith, posted 11-23-2019 10:51 AM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 252 of 308 (867308)
11-23-2019 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 248 by Faith
11-23-2019 11:00 AM


Re: Cosmic Tyrant an invention of atheists
Faith writes:
I'm talking about the same Christianity Pascal, who was a Catholic although a conservative Catholic who was more **** a Protestant really....
Well, a Protestant would be a liberal Catholic.
Faith writes:
... the same Christianity he said we should understand before we criticize it.
Few people understand Christianity less than you do.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by Faith, posted 11-23-2019 11:00 AM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 265 of 308 (867327)
11-23-2019 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by Faith
11-23-2019 11:27 AM


Re: There is no Fall in Genesis 2&3!
Faith writes:
Doesn't it say the Tree of Llfe was guarded against us "Lest they take of the tree of llfe and llve forever?" Eternal llfe right there.
The tree was guarded to prevent them from having eternal life - i.e. they did not have eternal life - they were subject to death right from the beginning.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Faith, posted 11-23-2019 11:27 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by Phat, posted 11-23-2019 1:39 PM ringo has replied
 Message 270 by Faith, posted 11-23-2019 2:12 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 274 of 308 (867386)
11-24-2019 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by Phat
11-23-2019 1:39 PM


Re: There is no Fall in Genesis 2&3!
Phat writes:
The tree was only "guarded" once they ate from the other tree. Clearly eternal life and "knowledge" did not go hand in hand.
Clearly.
But that's not the point. The point is that the tree was guarded to prevent them from obtaining eternal life ("lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever" Genesis 3:22). They did not have eternal life. They didn't know about death until they had the knowledge of good and evil but death was in the world. They would have died anyway many years later.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Phat, posted 11-23-2019 1:39 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 275 of 308 (867389)
11-24-2019 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by Faith
11-23-2019 2:12 PM


Re: There is no Fall in Genesis 2&3!
Phat writes:
As Phat said, they NO LONGER had eternal llfe....
I know what Phat said but that's not what the Bible says. Eternal life was something to be obtained by eating from the Tree of Life. Thus it could not have been something they already had.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Faith, posted 11-23-2019 2:12 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 1:23 PM ringo has replied
 Message 283 by Phat, posted 11-24-2019 3:42 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 277 of 308 (867398)
11-24-2019 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 276 by Faith
11-24-2019 1:23 PM


Re: There is no Fall in Genesis 2&3!
Faith writes:
They had eternal llfe before the fall and eating of the Tree of Llfe, which was permittex then, apparently sustained it somehow....
That's complete fiction, made up, unscriptural. There is no reason to think they had ever eaten from the Tree of Life.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 1:23 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 1:55 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 279 of 308 (867404)
11-24-2019 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by Faith
11-24-2019 1:55 PM


Re: There is no Fall in Genesis 2&3!
Faith writes:
there is every reason to believe it because it was not forbidden to them.
That isn't "every" reason. It's barely one possible reason. But there is no reason to think they ate from every tree except the one forbidden tree. At best, it's a completely unsupported speculation. There is certainly no justification for making a whole doctrine of it.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 1:55 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 2:10 PM ringo has replied

  
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