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Author Topic:   Dominant Force in West Today According to Dennis Prager is Fear of Left
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 200 of 308 (867147)
11-20-2019 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 199 by JonF
11-20-2019 8:23 PM


Re: Christian fundamentalim is abhorrent
Yeah but it's false Chrisianity, just a bunch of scammers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by JonF, posted 11-20-2019 8:23 PM JonF has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 216 of 308 (867175)
11-21-2019 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 212 by Theodoric
11-21-2019 9:01 AM


Re: Pascal's wager is a stupid argument
Instead let me replace this with what is known as the Atheist’s Wager. This states that you should live a good life and be a nice person, but leave religion alone. If God is loving and kind, he will forgive you for not believing in him and reward you in the afterlife. If God punishes you despite having been a good person all your life then god is unjust and you shouldn’t worship him.
SO wacko how unbelievers think making up a God is a good enough substitute for the God of Christianity. We believe in a revelation of a God who is real, a God whose characteristics are described for us. We don't make Him up at all, it wouldn't make sense to make Him up, though of course that doesn't stop you all from saying we do and assuming we do. Yawn. You'd object if I insisted on describing you as looking and acting in ways that don't describe you at all but you think you can do that with God. Weird.
So you think you can make up a God who would be happy with your own idea of what a good life is and being a nice person is, which is a total contradiction with Christian teachings. And you think you can make up your own idea of what a kind and loving God would be llke, how He'd forgive you and reward you for doing what you think is good and right, and you figure you know what an unjust god would be like and that's enough for you. No matter that the entire Bible was written to show you that the real God is not the kind of God you are capable of imagining, no matter, we'll just imagine our own god and expect that to be the reality against all rational thought. Sigh. What's the point in trying to persuade anyone of the true who can accept such totally irrational thinking?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 228 of 308 (867216)
11-22-2019 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by Phat
11-22-2019 2:13 AM


Re: No argument?
I didnj't write that, Phat, it's from the OP article I posted by Dennis Prager. I thought he did a great job of putting his finger on an important trvth about the state of things today but I did not write it. So you disagree with Prager, fine.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 239 of 308 (867290)
11-23-2019 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 211 by AZPaul3
11-21-2019 8:23 AM


Re: Cosmic Tyrant an invention of atheists
Why can't you atheists get it right? Zeus and Thor and Horus were all local gods, tribal gods, whereas the God of the Byble is universal, recognized as universal. As far as which is most "llkely," who knows how llkely anything is after it's been processed through the atheist mind.
And I have another pet peeve to bring up. Why can't anyonje get it straight, and in this case even some Christians forget it, that we are not"by nature" selfish and competitive and greedy and murderous and whatecver other evll qualities you want to impute to us. All that developed in us at the Fall, you know, when the snake told us we wouldn't die but be as gods when we ate the fruit we were told not to eat. We're now sinners and now subject to disase and death as a result.
And that's not normal either, death and disease I mean, all that is the result of the Fall.
At least if you're going to keep putting down Christianity you should put it down for what it actually says.
And Pascal said that by the way.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by jar, posted 11-23-2019 9:42 AM Faith has replied
 Message 245 by ringo, posted 11-23-2019 10:52 AM Faith has replied
 Message 246 by AZPaul3, posted 11-23-2019 10:52 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 241 of 308 (867294)
11-23-2019 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 240 by jar
11-23-2019 9:42 AM


Re: There is no Fall in Genesis 2&3!
The Fall is implicit in what happened to them, their hiding from God, knowing they were naked, and their expulsion from the Garden to toil as they'd never had to before. But it is explicit in the New Testament where Paul says it was sin that brought death into the world.
I know all your arguments but they hold no water in the context of Christian history.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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 Message 240 by jar, posted 11-23-2019 9:42 AM jar has replied

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 Message 242 by jar, posted 11-23-2019 10:39 AM Faith has replied
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 244 of 308 (867300)
11-23-2019 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 242 by jar
11-23-2019 10:39 AM


Re: There is no Fall in Genesis 2&3!
the Tree of Llfe refers to eternal llfe, not earthly llfe. That is why God had it guarded after the Fall, since eternal llfe in our sinful condition would make us llke Satan himself, and if we are mrely mortal we can be saved as Satan can't be.
Seems to me you are the one who misrepresents the Byble and really needs to learn a few things.
But I believe it's too late for you, and yes I'd llke to return to the topic which is one of the best articles written on what we are suffering through these days.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 247 of 308 (867303)
11-23-2019 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 246 by AZPaul3
11-23-2019 10:52 AM


Re: Cosmic Tyrant an invention of atheists
Sin caused everything you impute to God. He made everything good, but He also gave us the free will to choose against Him and we did and that's the whole catastrophe. When a creature puts itself at odds with the Creator of all things the whole fabric of existence comes apart at the seams. Your hot button is misplaced. Maybe it's stuck to your butt?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 248 of 308 (867304)
11-23-2019 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 245 by ringo
11-23-2019 10:52 AM


Re: Cosmic Tyrant an invention of atheists
I'm talking about the same Christianity Pascal, who was a Catholic although a conservative Catholic who was more like a Protestant really, the same Christianity he said we should understand before we criticize it.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 253 of 308 (867309)
11-23-2019 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by PaulK
11-23-2019 11:05 AM


Re: Cosmic Tyrant an invention of atheists
Calvinism says nothing can happen without God's willing it and empowering it but it also says the creature does what it does quite freely by its own felt choice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by PaulK, posted 11-23-2019 11:05 AM PaulK has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 254 of 308 (867313)
11-23-2019 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by PaulK
11-23-2019 11:05 AM


Re: Cosmic Tyrant an invention of atheists
Well-made objects aren’t fragile like that. Either this coming apart at the seams is intentional or very poor design or workmanship.
We're talking about a spiritual force that is not part of the original creation but arose in opposition to it. It would create an incredible tension in the fabric of things. God cannot be in opposition to Himself, He cannot sin, but He made it possible for that to be the condition of the mind of his intelligent creature. He gave us this power to oppose the Creator of the universe, pretty heady stuff.
This is a mystery beyond our ability to understand, however. I'm doing what I can with it but at some point humility decrees that we don't get it and can't get it really.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 257 of 308 (867317)
11-23-2019 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 256 by jar
11-23-2019 11:24 AM


Re: There is no Fall in Genesis 2&3!
Doesn't it say the Tree of Llfe was guarded against us "Lest they take of the tree of llfe and llve forever?" Eternal llfe right there.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 259 of 308 (867320)
11-23-2019 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 255 by PaulK
11-23-2019 11:24 AM


Re: Cosmic Tyrant an invention of atheists
Basically what Calvinism means by our not having free will is just that we don't have the ability to choose righteously because our minds are fallen. That's what the principle of totqal Depravity means. What we think is good isn't good by God's standards. "All our righteousness is as filthy rags" says Isaiah. But Calvin never denied that we don't have the free will to make daily innocuous choices, chocolate versus vanilla or whether to take the cruise to Alaska or to Portugal or whatever.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 260 of 308 (867321)
11-23-2019 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 246 by AZPaul3
11-23-2019 10:52 AM


Re: Cosmic Tyrant an invention of atheists
Actually "all gods are NOT recognized as universal" by their adherents. If you know the Byble at all you know that gods are identified by the people they are the gods of. But I don't think you need the Byble for that either, we know that Krisha is a god of India, Horus is a god of Egypt and so on. No they are not treated as universal, they are tribal gods.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 263 of 308 (867324)
11-23-2019 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 261 by jar
11-23-2019 11:43 AM


Re: There is no Fall in Genesis 2&3!
reading in context is generally a good thing. You might learn how to do that. that

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 Message 261 by jar, posted 11-23-2019 11:43 AM jar has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 270 of 308 (867337)
11-23-2019 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by ringo
11-23-2019 12:01 PM


Re: There is no Fall in Genesis 2&3!
As Phat said, they NO LONGER had eternal llfe after they disobeyed God. As God had said, if they disobeyed they would die, they had become mortal. So to prevent them from living forever in their fallen condition God kept them away from the Tree of Llfe.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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