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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Right Side of the News | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I don't expect that, while I'm sure the NRA and others have explained this very thoroughly, ... Can you show that those "explanations" use an originalist approach, or you are not an originalist and you accept a non-originalist argument ... which means you are not an originalist.
... I believe the 2nd amendment refers to two completely separate things, and the only reason they're in the same amendment is because they both involve arms; ... Can you show an originalist basis for this belief of yours?
... and arms rights for individuals, to always be an intimidating factor against an imperial government. Again, can you show an originalist basis for this belief of yours? It seems pretty clear to me that there are reasonable limits as I said:
Note that I do not see anywhere any provision for individuals to use arms to murder large numbers of innocent citizens going about their normal everyday business, or for arming them for such purpose. I think you would agree that the founders would find such behavior abhorrent.
quote: And carrying loaded mass murder weapons in public would also be a misdemeanor (affrighting), because that was the law when the constitution was written. You don't give me any reason to think otherwise.
... But to answer your question, if Scalia were alive today, he'd probably change his mind. ... This is laughable, and totally incongruous to a purported originalist mindset. You might just as well say that Jefferson, Madison, et al would probably change their minds about weapon possession, which curiously is what gun control advocates have been saying. In other words you take what you believe and then cherry pick arguments from others to suit your belief/s.
... Because climate change hysteria has gotten out of hand. ... We have Percy and many others convinced that some coastal cities are going to be underwater very soon, and there's nothing that can be done about it now. The list of this type of thing goes on and on, and it can only lead to one logical conclusion, that the U.S. today is in more danger of government searches and seizures than it ever has been in history. ... The targeting of small, defined segments of the population, one step at a time, is the only way to meet the significant, greenhouse gas reducing demands of angry, jealous mobs who constantly point fingers at others for climate change solutions. And you're going to use guns to combat this? It boggles the mind that you would think making the world cleaner and better needs to be combated by groups of rag-tag gun individuals with AK-47's and the like running around shooting at rising sea level. Curiously I think the biggest threat to "the U.S. today is in more danger of government searches and seizures than it ever has been in history" because of ICE and Humpty Dumbty Trumpty's treatment of immigrants ... but I don't see you being in any way disturbed by that problem. Do you think people should arm themselves with AK-47 and bazookas etc and provide armed resistance to ICE? Just asking.
The time for individuals to be armed is more important today than ever before, if the U.S. is to avoid a Venezuela style collapse. That was caused by US CIA meddling and sanctions? Have Norway, Sweden, Denmark, etc, collapsed? No? Then the problem is not democracies with socialist programs (like welfare, healthcare for all, free education, police, national defense, etc) within a capitalist system where taxes are used to benefit the people, more specifically the working people, as opposed to companies and rich people. What scares you about healthy, educated, happy people (these nordic nations have the highest happiness in the world) living an economically secure life?
quote: It is not socialism per se but a cascade of reasons, some of them imposed from the outside. But even so, what is being advocate in the US is not socialism but FDR "new deal" type programs while leaving capitalism as the main economic model, using social programs to benefit people to temper the bad effects of excessive capitalism (like poverty, income insecurity, etc).
The time for individuals to be armed is more important today than ever before, if the U.S. is to avoid a Venezuela style collapse. But you're not worried at all about a collapse into Fascism and the destruction of our democratic republic from within by Moscow McConnell and Humpty Dumbty Trumpty ... sad. Enjoyby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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JonF Member (Idle past 194 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
All the testimony is evidence. Sondham is no Democrat. The stories are consistent and damning for Trump.
And neither you nor anyone has any meaningful response.
Was there a quid pro quo?...The answer is yes. Run away! Run away!
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I'm supposed to take somebody's opinion for evidence? Huh? Especially someone who clearly said Trump said he wanted no quid pro quo? Eh?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
Nobody cares what you take as evidence. It's what the investigators take as evidence that counts. I'm supposed to take somebody's opinion for evidence?"If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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JonF Member (Idle past 194 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Describing what you saw and heard is not just opinion. Trump did it. The stories are clear and consistent.
Sondland faithfully recounted Trump's obvious self-serving lie, which he said after he got caught. But you believe that everyone who protests innocence is telling the truth, right? If you were in charge nobody who claims innocence would ever go to prison, amirite?
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
quote: So he was "in the loop" about Biden/Burisma etc then we have
quote: So he meets with known corrupt Ukrainians to look into evidence to backup Humpty Dumbty Trumpy's conspiracy theory based on Russian propaganda, and then claims in the hearing that the issue was rooting out Ukrainian corruption ... Enjoyby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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vimesey Member (Idle past 99 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined: |
If you were in charge nobody who claims innocence would ever go to prison, amirite? Only if they're Republicans. If they're Democrats, they're going down.Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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JonF Member (Idle past 194 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
I stand corrected.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
My answer is a resounding NO, ... Good, proud of you.
... and it doesn't pass your smell test because I didn't address your false statement. Trump has never said, or implied, that he can "do whatever he wants". ... Trump appears before teenage audience and declares, 'I can do whatever I want' Trump Said It, ‘I Can Do Whatever I Want’ In Bonkers Interview. Above The Law, Much? Trump Claims Article 2 Gives Him ‘The Right To Do Whatever I Want As President’ Try again.
... What he does is responds to questions about whether he thinks he can do whatever he wants in a certain, defined situation. Like when he's dealing with a foreign leader, or working with classified information. ... Which is why he withdrew suddenly from Syria after a phone call with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoan letting the Turks invade and letting Russian troops into area held by US soldiers, taking over their barracks. Which is why he tried to Bribe newly elected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Oleksandrovych Zelensky by withholding aid to do some dirt digging on Biden/Burisma/DNC Server fantasy conspiracy idiot theory, again weakening the US foreign policy, putting Ukrainian soldiers in weaker position and strengthening Russia's position. Which is why he discussed top secret information at Mara Lago over dinner in public ... with Russians.
... He has a lot of responsibilities and duties under the constitution, and this is a more dangerous time than most of the past, in that Trump has many in a Democrat congress who would freely commit treason to block him from succeeding at something, or to help get him removed from office. Can you tell me what treason you think Democrats would do? Conspire with a foreign government to hack the election like he has done?
First off, Hunter Biden was investigated and cleared by Ukraine prosecutors in May. I would prefer that he was investigated by Americans. So Trump is wrong to ask Ukraine to do it?
Second, that's not the question. It is against Federal campaign law to ask for or receive assistance from a foreign country. Here is Humpty Dumbty Trumpty asking for a political favor from Ukraine. If only we had an investigation of the phone calls Hillary made in obtaining the Steele Dossier. But you wouldn't be interested, would you? Five comments: First I think Hillary and the DNC were wrong in their campaign to block Bernie, and that if they had not done that the emails would not have been a problem for them. Second the "Steele Dossier" was started by Never-Trumpers Third the company that was involved with the "Steele Dossier" (Fusion GPS) is an American company, not a foreign country. Fourth the investigations into Hillary re Bengazi were longer than this hearing on Trumps abuse of power. Fifth you didn't answer the question again
Was his use of his position to attempt to extort a foreign government leader into assisting his re-election campaign overstepping the bounds? No. Attempting to discover the truth about possible criminal activity of the son of Joe Biden, who isn't, and won't be, his opponent in 2020, had nothing to do with his re-election campaign. Second, that's not the question. It is against Federal campaign law to ask for or receive assistance from a foreign country. Here is Humpty Dumbty Trumpty asking for a political favor from Ukraine. If only we had an investigation of the phone calls Hillary made in obtaining the Steele Dossier. But you wouldn't be interested, would you? It's a simple question: is it okay for Trump to ask a foreign country for personal political aid in spite of it being against Federal Laws.
Yes OR No This is all trivial, witch hunt stuff. We'll find out how important all this is when the current impeachment stuff is over. Bribery is trivial, using the position of president to extort something of personal benefit is trivial ... got it.
A large part of the reason Trump was elected was to challenge all the "this is how we've always done it" mindset in dealing with foreign countries. ... Creating disasters as he goes because he doesn't understand the value of diplomacy and treaties.
... He's doing it from his experience as a businessman, not a politician. And of course the answer to that is "he's failed at everything he's ever done!!!!!" ... And proving in the process that business management is not a good working model for government management.
... But since unemployment is now at a 50 year low, maybe he's finally learned how to do something in his old age. Carrying on a trend from Obama ... from wiki Meanwhile more workers are working two or three jobs to make ends meet, and available jobs are minimum wage or worse. Plus you have more workers who are outside the unemployment calculations. Considered unemployable. More homeless people. More poverty. Plus you have the highest farm bankruptcies and suicides ...
Amid Trump Tariffs, Farm Bankruptcies And Suicides Rise Well you give yourself a pretty convenient position, since I'm an originalist I have to adhere to a stringent interpretation of the constitution (interpreted by you) and you living constitutionalists can justify bending and shaping the constitution any way you want, "to promote the general welfare"? That's the shoes you put on when you claim to be an originalist ... if they fit wear them. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : . Edited by RAZD, : Fusion GPS for cloudstrikeby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Percy Member Posts: 22493 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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marc9000 writes: It wasn't clear to me whether you accepted the reality of the hollowing out of rural America and the dramatic impacts it is having. Yes, though I don't think give away programs and increased government involvement is going to solve much. Well, we sort of agree. Certainly give away programs should only be part of a social safety net, not long term answers, but government does need to be involved. I don't know what form government rural assistance would take, but rural America needs help. It's amazing that so many Representatives and Senators and governors in red states get elected by promising to do less and less for rural folk as their life's blood is sucked out into the cities.
I do understand that a big reason for increased hardships in rural America is environmental requirements and restrictions. I have no idea why you think this. What "environmental requirements and restrictions" do you think rural America is suffering under.
One example; there wasn't much need for hospitals in the region of the Keystone XL pipeline when Obama was president, because he didn't allow construction activity there. There was no "region of the Keystone XL pipeline." That pipeline would have run through many regions in a narrow, narrow and long, long strip of land. Looking this up, construction of a pipeline goes at the rate of about a mile a day. Pipeline construction crews are mobile units. By the time you built and staffed a rural hospital in one region, pipeline construction would long since have moved on. And how many people do you think pipeline construction takes, anyway? Building a pipeline isn't like discovering oil and gas in the local area. Yes, Obama vetoed the pipeline bill, but even if he had instead signed the bill it wouldn't have resulted in increased hospital construction in rural areas. A lack of local skilled healthcare is just one of burdens of living in modern rural America. Seems like something government should give some serious attention to. Nearly a century ago we had the Rural Electrification Bill that guaranteed electric service to all of rural America. Maybe now's the time for a Rural Healthification Bill. --Percy Edited by Percy, : Typo.
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2290 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 6.9
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Third the company that was involved with the "Steele Dossier" (Cloudstrike) is an American company, not a foreign country
Crowdstrike isn't associated with the Steele Dossier, that was Fusion GPS. The people who've bought into the russian misinformation campaign allege that Crowdstrike is behind the "disappearance" of the DNC server.It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds soon I discovered that this rock thing was true Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world And so there was only one thing I could do Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On *not an actual doctor
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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I'm supposed to take somebody's opinion for evidence? Huh? Especially someone who clearly said Trump said he wanted no quid pro quo? Eh? What Sonderland said was that Trump said to him "no quid pro quo" that he "wanted no quid pro quo" ... and "talk to Rudy" ... but that in fact there was an actual quid pro quo because of the information he had from Rudy acting for the president. See the distinction? Trump lies, we know that. It is well documented. So the question is: who do you trust more ... (lying) Trump on the lawn, or Sonderland testifying under oath? Enjoyby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Percy Member Posts: 22493 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Faith writes: I can't answer all this stuff so I guess I shouldn't post at all. Wittgenstein said, "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."
I know Trump is being honest, not "changing his tune" to accommodate any of the Democrat bullshit, I'm just astonished at how you are all able to manipulate simple things to make him out to be some kind of criminal and I can't answer that stuff. The reason you have no answers is because there is no defense against the plain testimony we've just witnessed over the past two weeks.
Weird how first it was Russian collusion and the sense of certainty about that was amazing,... One Trump Tower meeting. Multiple Wikileaks contacts (Stone just convicted). Over 140 contacts between the Trump campaign and Russian agents or representatives. One corrupt Attorney General of the United States.
...oh any day now Trump is going to go under,... Not sure what you mean by "go under." If you mean resign then no, no one thought that. If you mean many thought the Mueller report sufficient to begin impeachments proceedings, then yes, that is correct.
...then it was obstruction of justice,... Yes, Mueller enumerated eleven instances of obstruction of justice by the Trump administration.
...he's guilty guilty guilty,... And acts it, too.
...then along came this whistleblower who isn't even qualified to be a whistleblower but is just spy in the White House. You don't know who the whistleblower is, but pretty much everything in the whistleblower complaint was confirmed by the transcript provided by the White House, and by all the recent testimony before Congress.
Trump should have cleaned out ever last one of the previous administration's staff but he stupidly didn't. While we don't know the whistleblower's identity, it's strongly suspected that he's a member of the intelligence community detailed to or near the White House.
Democrat Presdients do but Republicans want to be fair and where does it get them. Incoming presidential administrations of both parties always retain huge numbers of civil servants. It's not possible to rebuild the bureaucracy every four or eight years. By and large it is only the upper reaches of the administration who are replaced, such as cabinet members and major department heads.
It gets them spies in the white house and a whole cadre of enemies trying to bring them down accusing them of all kinds of stuff they aren't guilty of. According to all the testimony we've heard, pretty much everything the whistleblower said is true. Trump has abused the of power of his office and obstructed justice.
And it doesn't seem to matter what it is, if one accusation falls apart well we'll just set up another one, and we'll just keep making him responsible for the stuff our guys actually did. No one is holding Trump or the Trump campaign or the Trump administration responsible for anything they didn't do. They did do everything described in the Mueller report and in the recent testimony before Congress. It isn't a question of whether those acts occurred, but whether they rise to the level of impeachment.
Hillary committed real obstruction of justice... If that were actually true then the Republican controlled Department of Justice under Trump appointee William Barr would charge her.
...and Russian collusion... This is still as false as it was all the other times people explained to you the difference between gathering information from Russians and conspiring with Russians.
...but we'll ignore all that... No, no, let's not ignore all that. Let's you explain why you turn a deaf ear each time this is explained.
...and accuse Trump of it instead. Again, Trump and his campaign and his administration did do everything documented in the Mueller report and everything people testified about to Congress over the past two weeks. It's just a matter of whether it's impeachable.
Biden committed the real quid pro quo for personal reasons and... You repeating the same many-times debunked points is getting tiresome.
Trump did no such thing but we'll stick it on him anyway. Bribery and extortion charges are sticking to Trump because people witnessed him doing such things and then testified to Congress about it. Have you been in a cave?
What Trump said on phone calls to the Ukraine and what he actually did are all within normal operations for American Presidents but the Democrats twist it into something criminal. It isn't necessary to twist anything to see that pressuring foreign leaders into lending domestic political assistance is potentially criminal or impeachable or both.
So amazing, turning the US government into a third world swamp for their own political corrupt reasons. Well, yes, that's what Trump is doing.
There are people who can deal with all these shifts and twists but I'm not up to it. This is kind of vague, but if you're referring to your inability to muster any facts in support of your opinions, then I agree.
You have to go out of your way to get the truth these days... All you have to do to get the truth is follow a decent news outlet, or watch the Congressional hearings on TV the past two weeks.
...since the inyourface media are all on the left,... The news media is anti-corruption, whether committed by the left or the right or anyone in between.
...and there is no motivation to do that so you just believe... I just believe? Please leave me out of this.
...whatever the latest lie is concocted by the leftist media and the House Democrats and whoever else doesn't mind destroying the American republic for political gain against a duly elected President. Neither the left nor the media nor the Democrats had anything to do with the Trump/Zelensky phone call or what was testified to. Trump and his administration did it all by themselves.
The gullibility on the left is astonishing but it's beyond my ability to deal with it. An aptitude for ignoring facts is not an effective method of persuasion. --Percy
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jar Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
It's interesting to see how many of the people Trump selected done came and went and are now speaking out against him.
If anyone remembers HR McMaster it is worth reading his book "Dereliction of Duty" once again since it is relevant to this Administration.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member
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Lindsey Graham, Legal Scholar
The cops have stormed a bank in time to snareThe robbers. Caught red-handed, they’re still there. Their trial would hinge, per Lindsey Graham’s quotes, On who called 911 and how he votes. For this generation of far-right nationalists, religion is not a question of ethical conduct; it is purely about identity and peoplehood. -- Jan-Werner Müller |
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