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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News (renamed)
JonF
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Posts: 5766
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 3590 of 4521 (867326)
11-23-2019 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 3588 by Faith
11-23-2019 10:39 AM


Re: Democrat Lies just keep going and going and going
Describing what you saw and heard is not just opinion. Trump did it. The stories are clear and consistent.

Sondland faithfully recounted Trump's obvious self-serving lie, which he said after he got caught. But you believe that everyone who protests innocence is telling the truth, right? If you were in charge nobody who claims innocence would ever go to prison, amirite?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3588 by Faith, posted 11-23-2019 10:39 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3592 by vimesey, posted 11-23-2019 1:45 PM JonF has responded

  
JonF
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Posts: 5766
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 3593 of 4521 (867341)
11-23-2019 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 3592 by vimesey
11-23-2019 1:45 PM


Re: Democrat Lies just keep going and going and going
I stand corrected.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3592 by vimesey, posted 11-23-2019 1:45 PM vimesey has not yet responded

  
JonF
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Posts: 5766
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 3605 of 4521 (867375)
11-24-2019 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 3602 by Faith
11-24-2019 10:51 AM


Re: Paul Krugman Republicans Hate their Opponents
{snip usual fact-free rant}

Making it yet again obvious that you have no meaningful response to the accusations and facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3602 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 10:51 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
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Posts: 5766
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 3606 of 4521 (867376)
11-24-2019 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 3604 by Faith
11-24-2019 11:58 AM


Re: Paul Krugman: Republicans really hate their opponents
All I can do is say the same thing I already said of course, it's you guys who have everything backwards.

Yes, we know. That's all you can do. You can't muster any actual facts. You can't come up with quotes that support your fantasy. You can't produce any meaningful response to the mountains of evidence of Trump's criminality. All you can do is repeat the same unevidenced BS over and over and over and over and over again.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3604 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 11:58 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3607 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 12:05 PM JonF has responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5766
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 3610 of 4521 (867382)
11-24-2019 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 3607 by Faith
11-24-2019 12:05 PM


Re: Paul Krugman: Republicans really hate their opponents
That Politico piece doesn't support your argument, as has been explained many times. And it's not on the current topic.

The current discussion is about Trump's attempt to get Ukraine to reopen an investigation which was closed (rightly) years ago, before Biden criticized the prosecutor, and investigate Russian propaganda claiming that Ukraine rather than Russia interfered in 2016.

Not only can you not get quotes, you can't get anything remotely resembling a fact.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3607 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 12:05 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3611 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 1:02 PM JonF has responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5766
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 3612 of 4521 (867387)
11-24-2019 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 3611 by Faith
11-24-2019 1:02 PM


Re: Paul Krugman: Republicans really hate their opponents
The Biden investigation was closed a year before Joe Biden and many other governments called for the prosecutor's ouster because he wasn't doing any investigating . There has been no Interference with any investigation.

Trump just wants it reopened for political purposes. As so many people have testified.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3611 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 1:02 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3614 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 1:15 PM JonF has responded
 Message 3623 by Percy, posted 11-25-2019 11:56 AM JonF has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5766
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 3616 of 4521 (867406)
11-24-2019 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 3614 by Faith
11-24-2019 1:15 PM


Re: Paul Krugman: Republicans really hate their opponents
Your word against mine bucko.

It's on record in many places that I'm right. Bloomberg - Are you a robot?:

quote:
4. What criminal charges came out of this?
None. Burisma issued a statement in 2017 saying that “all legal proceedings and pending criminal allegations” against it and Zlochevsky were closed and that it paid an extra 180 million hryvnias ($7 million) in taxes. There’s also no known evidence that any of the investigations ever involved Hunter Biden. Ukraine’s former prosecutor general, Yuriy Lutsenko, told Bloomberg News in May that there was no evidence of wrongdoing by the Bidens.

5. What does Trump say?
Without substantiation, Trump has said and tweeted that the Biden family “was paid off, pure and simple” and accused the family of corruption, extortion and “pillaging” foreign countries. He’s called them “stone-cold crooked” and publicly urged Ukraine and China to open criminal investigations of them. (Trump’s contention that Hunter Biden flew to Beijing aboard the vice president’s aircraft and left a billionaire -- the episode he wants China to investigate -- isn’t supported by the available facts, either. Still, Hunter Biden said he’s resigning from the board of a Chinese-backed private equity company and would forgo all foreign work if his father is elected president.)

6. Where does Joe Biden fit in?
Biden, as the Obama administration’s point person on Ukraine, pressed successfully for the ouster of Viktor Shokin as Ukraine’s prosecutor general in 2016. At the heart of the allegation by Trump and his attorney, Rudy Giuliani, is that Biden did so to derail an investigation into Burisma. “Joe Biden promised Ukraine $1 billion if they fired the prosecutor investigating his son’s company,” the Trump re-election campaign says in a television commercial running in states holding early presidential primary elections.
7. What evidence suggests that was Biden’s motive?
Pretty much none. The problem with Shokin -- in the eyes of U.S. leaders, their Western allies, the International Monetary Fund and many Ukrainians -- wasn’t that he was being too aggressive about corruption, but that he was being far too lax. In May, Bloomberg News reported that prosecutors in Ukraine had shelved the investigation into Zlochevsky by 2015, meaning Hunter Biden didn’t stand to benefit from the prosecutor’s ouster. Vitaliy Kasko, who pursued the case against Burisma’s owner as deputy prosecutor and is now first deputy prosecutor in the new government, told Bloomberg News that there had been no U.S. pressure to close that case. Former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko also told Bloomberg News that Biden never asked him to close any cases.



This message is a reply to:
 Message 3614 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 1:15 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
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Posts: 5766
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 3617 of 4521 (867408)
11-24-2019 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 3611 by Faith
11-24-2019 1:02 PM


Re: Paul Krugman: Republicans really hate their opponents
Politico challenges Politico's reporting on Ukraine's 2016 pro-Hillary efforts (a strongly right-wing source)

quote:
The newsgroup reports that there is “no evidence” to support the idea that Ukraine worked hand-in-hand with the Democratic Party and Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign to torpedo then-GOP nominee Donald Trump.

“According to Giuliani," Politico notes, “Ukrainian officials conspired with the Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee to help boost the Democratic nominee’s campaign and damage Trump’s candidacy. No evidence has emerged to support that idea."

This comes as a bit of a surprise considering reporters Ken Vogel and David Stern reported for Politico in 2017 that “Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office.”

...

Vogel, who reports now for the New York Times, and Stern wrote a lengthy, in-depth, and seemingly well-sourced article for Politico detailing efforts by Ukrainian officials to feed damaging information about Trump and his associates to top Democratic operatives during the 2016 election. But now the same newsgroup reports that there is "no evidence" to support the notion that Ukrainian officials “conspired” with Democratic officers to destroy the Republican nominee.

Huh?

"The 2017 article detailed several instances in which Ukrainian government officials sought to raise questions about Donald Trump and his campaign," a spokesman for Politico said in a statement to the Washington Examiner. "These included alleged instances of cooperation by officials in the Ukrainian embassy to the United States with the efforts of Alexandra Chalupa, a consultant to the Democratic National Committee, to research then-Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort’s ties to pro-Russian politicians in Ukraine. Chalpua said her research was undertaken on her own, though she briefed DNC officials."

He added, "The story also outlined ways in which a Ukrainian parliamentarian in the ruling party touted ledgers that purported to show $12.7 million in payments earmarked for Manafort from a pro-Russian party in Ukraine. And the story cited social media posts and an op-ed by Ukrainian government officials that were highly critical of Trump and his candidacy. The article did not state that the Ukrainian government conspired with the Clinton campaign or the DNC."


Edited by Admin, : Add a missing double quote, fix the markup.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3611 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 1:02 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3618 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 3:56 PM JonF has responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5766
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 3621 of 4521 (867435)
11-25-2019 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 3618 by Faith
11-24-2019 3:56 PM


Re: Paul Krugman: Republicans really hate their opponents
Have you eve3r considered addressing the issues rather than posting meaningless drivel?

Of course not. If you ever came in contact with reality you could be seriously injured.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3618 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 3:56 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5766
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 3622 of 4521 (867436)
11-25-2019 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 3620 by Faith
11-24-2019 4:33 PM


Re: Paul Krugman: Republicans really hate their opponents
The Democrats are using normal legal means to oppose Trump.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3620 by Faith, posted 11-24-2019 4:33 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5766
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 3625 of 4521 (867464)
11-25-2019 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 3624 by caffeine
11-25-2019 1:17 PM


Re: Impeachment debacle
Missiles which are stored unused hundreds of miles from the front lines, as required by the agreement,.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3624 by caffeine, posted 11-25-2019 1:17 PM caffeine has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3628 by RAZD, posted 11-25-2019 2:31 PM JonF has responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5766
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 3630 of 4521 (867473)
11-25-2019 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 3628 by RAZD
11-25-2019 2:31 PM


Re: Impeachment debacle
Javelins have a range of 2500 meters, not hundreds of miles.

They could be deployed fairly quickly, and they are an anti-tank deterrent.

Somewhere I read that the Russians haven't used tanks in Ukraine since 2015 but I can't find it or confirm it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3628 by RAZD, posted 11-25-2019 2:31 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5766
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 3635 of 4521 (867516)
11-26-2019 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 3634 by Thugpreacha
11-26-2019 1:57 PM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
No Democrat would do what Trump's done.

His tweets are his. He doesn't have the self-control to let someone else do them. Often they are related to something true but he lies just because he always lies. He has no concept of truth. He thinks reality adapts to what he wants it to be.

I look at right-wing news sometimes. It's irritating because the lies are so transparently obvious to anyone who follows other sources (and detects an occasional lie in them). Faith and her ilk absolutely refuse to look outside the big bubble o' lies.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3634 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-26-2019 1:57 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3636 by DrJones*, posted 11-26-2019 8:05 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5766
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 3648 of 4521 (867854)
12-04-2019 9:58 AM


Fact-checking Politico on Faith's favorite article
The Politico story at the center of a Ukraine conspiracy

quote:
The article itself cautions that the actions of the Ukrainians to oppose Trump were not as expansive or as centrally controlled as the election interference by Russia. But those nuances have been ignored by Trump allies, who have chosen to play up the Ukrainian efforts outlined in the article rather than the more extensively documented Russian meddling. …

"Politico’s investigation found evidence of Ukrainian government involvement in the race that appears to strain diplomatic protocol dictating that governments refrain from engaging in one another’s elections," Vogel and Stern wrote.

But the article also states that the attempt wasn’t comparable in scale to Russia’s meddling in the election, which was outlined at length in former special prosecutor Robert Mueller’s report. "The Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion," the Mueller report said, citing everything from Russian spy agency hacking to coordinated social media efforts.

According to Politico’s article, "Russia’s effort was personally directed by Russian President Vladimir Putin (and) involved the country’s military and foreign intelligence services, according to U.S. intelligence officials," they wrote. "There’s little evidence of such a top-down effort by Ukraine." …

"When you dig down into the details," the efforts by Ukraine and Russia were "very, very different," Stern [one of the authors - JonF] said on CNN in July 2017. "What we said in the article is that we don't have, as far as we can see, the type of top-down and wide, broad attack on the American election that was being alleged."

"The article did not state that the Ukrainian government conspired with the Clinton campaign or the DNC," said Melissa Cooke, a booking manager for Politico, in an email. "It also emphasized that the acts of Ukrainian officials to raise questions about Trump were not comparable to Russia’s interference in the 2016 election, and reported that the then-Ukrainian government was trying to make amends with then-President-elect Trump."



Replies to this message:
 Message 3650 by Faith, posted 12-04-2019 12:58 PM JonF has responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5766
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 3652 of 4521 (867866)
12-04-2019 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 3650 by Faith
12-04-2019 12:58 PM


Re: Fact-checking Politico on Faith's favorite article
Politico's investigation was honest and apparently truthful.

It showed that some Ukrainian politicians preferred Hillary (as did many foreign politicians) but they didn't do much about it.

It specifically stated that Russian intervention on Trump’s behalf was on a much larger scale than anything Ukrainians did.

So I think the article is a dependable source but slanted, especially in its light-handed treatment of Manafort’s crimes, to which he pled guilty.

Which doesn't support Trump’s or your claims. Russia interfered on Trump’s behalf on a scale that dwarfs anything any other actors did. Nothing other than Russia's actions are significant enough to discuss.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3650 by Faith, posted 12-04-2019 12:58 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
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