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Author | Topic: Testing The Christian Apologists | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7
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Phat writes:
Let's all take a moment and ponder this line from Phat. So who really cares if you can prove that the text says what it says, which you can, and your claim that it means what it says, which is a lie.Wow! What his bible actually says doesn't matter. What matters is what he and the fundies want it to mean. Case closed. Here is an admission from Phat that he and christian apologists fail the test. Since he admits that they can not pass the test, might be time to stick a fork in this thread and call it done. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Yet the reality is that in the Story found in Genesis 2&3 the God character lies and the serpent tells the truth. You may not like my pointing that fact out but it is actually what is written.
Yet the reality is that the God character described in Genesis 1 is entirely different than the God character in Genesis 2&3 or the God character in in Exodus or the God character in Genesis 6&7. You may not like my pointing that fact out but it is actually what is written. Yet the stories all still have value even if Jesus was just a tale told around campfires. You may not like me pointing that fact out but is is still true.
Phat writes: It may be what you think Christianity should be but the rest of us Christians don't buy it. Again, I don't address what Christianity should be; I understand that Christianity is simply a label chosen by people as an identity. Yes, much of Christianity does not buy what I point out, yet it is what Jesus said we should do and what is actually written in the Bible. Apologists exist to offer justification for you and many other Christians to create the religion and Bible and God that YOU desire.
Phat writes: I also am well aware of what the book says. So you claim yet in the story found in Genesis 2&3 the God lies and the serpent tells the truth. That is what is actually what the book says.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
I bet we feed more people than your local salvation army or red cross does.
It burns.First of all would you like to provide some evidence for this claim? I thought not. The thing that burns is that I guess you do not realize that the salvation army is a very fundie christian organization. quote: The Salvation Army - Wikipedia Also, I would think that the Red Cross having a cross as it's symbol would give away the fact of it's christian origins. Or does the fact there is a Red Crescent destroy any good will? International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement - WikipediaFacts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
First of all would you like to provide some evidence for this claim? I thought not. You thought wrong.My friend volunteers for David CliftonMinistries, which has a food bank and he runs the soup kitchen and assists the Pastor. According to him, they feed an average of 75-100 people per day except when the weather is bad when they can feed 200. I can look into the stats for other faith-based ministries, but what do you care? You don't seem to trust anything I say anyway. All Im trying to say is that the local church helps as many people as do the secular organizations, excluding the state itself. And why does it burn? What do you care who feeds the needy as long as they get fed?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction . "~Thugpreacha You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
You thought wrong.
Oh I see. I missed your caveat. You have reduced all good every organization does to just feeding. So all the services provided by the Red Cross do not count.My friend volunteers for David CliftonMinistries, which has a food bank and he runs the soup kitchen and assists the Pastor. According to him, they feed an average of 75-100 people per day except when the weather is bad when they can feed 200. How many people does UNICEF feed per day or the UNHCR? All Im trying to say is that the local church helps as many people as do the secular organizations,
No that is not what you said.
What do you care who feeds the needy as long as they get fed?
I don't, but you seem to.Didn't you spout this? Phat writes: I bet we feed more people than your local salvation army or red cross does.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Theo writes: Not even. Do you really think we are gonna take a bunch of atheists seriously when they try and teach us what the Bible means? That would be almost as laughable as you listening to Alexandria Ocasio Cortez's attempt to explain economics to Milton Friedman! (Although he is dead, so no, that would not be funny ) What matters is what he and the fundies want it to mean.Case closed. Seriously, despite my usuing the appeal to popularity, I will trust the majority over a literalist socialist atheist minority. As for jar, he is on his own planet anyway. I dont find many Anglicans agreeing with him on everything.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction . "~Thugpreacha You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
OK, you win. I did open my mouth first. Now can we move on? Im more concerned about how ringo attempts to define what my religion should be teaching. You all seem to get so mad when the creationists do that in schools and yet you are trying to teach us what the Bible really says as if you have any clue beyond your secular critical exegesis.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction . "~Thugpreacha You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Phat writes:
You don't even believe that the character exists outside of the book.ringo writes: because many of us believe that Jesus speaks through the scriptures, teaching you as you study. There has been many a Bible study where we read passages we have read before and get a fresh interpretation.
What has that got to do with reading what the book says?ringo writes: I knew that you valued socialism more than the messenger. Your socialism will break down along with the rest of the world systems when the fossil fuels run out and the oceans rise. Watch Christianity take off and grow exponentially. Then you really will have a lot of nuts and false prophets to deal with, as will we. I agree that the Christianity dilutes the secular humanism, so let's get rid of the Christianity entirely.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction . "~Thugpreacha You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
Do you even know what socialism is? It always amazes me that avowed christians attack socialism and embrace authoritarian and/or corporate rule.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
From what I understand, its basically collective ownership. Nothing is privately owned. As long as I'm not forced to share my home with a bunch of street people, I can tolerate it. Some areas of life remain sacred. I could care less if I'm ever rich, but I do consider some things mine and nobody else's.
And I don't want the government messing with my freedom of religion, speech, or keeping their hand in my wallet. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction . "~Thugpreacha You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Phat writes: From what I understand, its basically collective ownership. Nothing is privately owned. That like saying Christianity is the polluted, corrupted, bad-natured and near-evil shit that Faith believes in.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
ringo writes: I certainly agree that there is a basic gulf in belief between the two. however, I don't agree that Christians and secular humanist can't have complete agreement on the social construct of our societies. I agree that the Christianity dilutes the secular humanism, so let's get rid of the Christianity entirely. Both secular humanists and Christians can be found across the whole spectrum of political belief. In our own country we have the province that espouses secular humanism, (the BQ leader promoted the ides that the province is secular and gained the most seats), is the province that wants to limit immigration and bans religious symbols. In contrast it is churches across the country that have been most active in sponsoring refugee families both financially and with the help they need to settle here. Edited by GDR, : typoHe has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
Wrong. Maybe you should actually read about what it is before you say stupid shit. Just an idea.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
But do you know human nature? Look at History. When great Empires collapse, they often implode and it takes more than socialism to keep the people safe. It often degrades into fearful leaders hiring armed thugs to protect them. Do you see that in America's possible future? Otherwise, any excess bounty we have will be picked clean by the vultures...sorta like what the US did to the Natives of many lands, only in reverse. I try not to act like an entitled European, nor do I advocate any sort of racial conflicts, but I honestly feel that there will be cultural wars and that those of us who grew up having it good will find life much more difficult. Thats a fear I have. Perhaps I am being irrational. A good Christian would accept their lot in life.
Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction . "~Thugpreacha You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: A good Christian would accept their lot in life. An utterly stupid Christian would accept their lot in life. A good Christian would pull their ass out of the ditch even if it was on the Sabbath.
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