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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House The Trump Presidency

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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 3601 of 4573 (867437)
11-25-2019 10:32 AM


#MadCow Nunes in trouble
quote:
DEVIN NUNES SPENT $57,000 ON FLIGHTS TO EUROPE TO ALLEGEDLY INVESTIGATE BIDENS AS ETHICS COMPLAINT FILED OVER 'ABUSE' OF OFFICE
Rep. Devin Nunes, the ranking Republican member on the House Intelligence Committee, spent nearly $57,000 on a trip to Europe for him and his staff to allegedly investigate former Vice President Joe Biden, records show.
Parnas said he met Nunes in a secretive trip to Vienna, Austria, between November and December 2018, and put him in touch with former Ukrainian Prosecutor General Victor Shokinthe lawyer who was ousted from his position in 2016 after pressure from Western leaders, including Biden, who said he was not doing enough to combat corruption.
Reports filed with the Office of the Clerk for the House of Representatives show that Nunes claimed expenses for a four-day trip to Europe at the time in question between November 30 and December 3. ...
If the allegations are correct, they could have deeply embarrassing and damaging repercussions as the committee Nunes sits on is the one investigating President Donald Trump in the Democrats' current push for impeachment.
They accuse Trump and his associates of allegedly attempting to enlist a foreign government to dig up dirt on a domestic political opponent, while Congressionally approved aid was withheld until the request was metin essence, bribery.
Nunes, who has been one of Trump's most strident defenders on the committee, repeatedly labelling the impeachment inquiry a "circus," should have recused himself from the proceedings if the allegations are true.
It has since been confirmed by the top Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee, Rep. Adam Smith, that Nunes will likely face an ethics investigation into the claims.
Couldn’t happen to a nicer cow.
We know that #MadCow Nunes made up an Intelligence report when he was head of the committee which was criticized by the intelligence agencies as highly inaccurate. We also know it (a) absolved the Russians, (b) accused Ukraine of interfering in the 2016 election and (c) that Dr Hill said that the Ukraine involvement narrative was part of Russian propaganda and Russian interference in the 2016 election.
The #MadCow Nunes report is a false narrative.
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Replies to this message:
 Message 3602 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2019 10:39 AM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 3603 of 4573 (867463)
11-25-2019 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 3602 by Theodoric
11-25-2019 10:39 AM


Re: #MadCow Nunes in trouble
Though I agree this is huge, I really would like to see some corroboration. ...
Agreed, but we do have means, motive and opportunity.
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 3608 of 4573 (867527)
11-27-2019 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 3607 by jar
11-27-2019 7:34 AM


Re: Giuliani is underbussed
Rudy will likely simply refuse to answer questions siting Attorney Client Privilege. ...
My understanding is that once you have discussed something on TV it no longer is privileged information.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 3607 by jar, posted 11-27-2019 7:34 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 3611 of 4573 (867536)
11-27-2019 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 3609 by jar
11-27-2019 9:00 AM


Re: Giuliani is underbussed
My point is that the two ********** will simply attempt to toss the other ********** from the sleigh.
Wonder what Rudy thinks he has on DumbtyTrumpty. Taped conversations? If I were him I would.
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 3612 of 4573 (867541)
11-27-2019 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 3605 by JonF
11-26-2019 8:20 PM


Re: Giuliani is underbussed
Trump Denies Directing Rudy Giuliani To Conduct Ukraine Shadow Diplomacy
Giuliani has other problems
quote:
Prosecutors are looking into Giuliani’s money, into his Ukrainian ties, and into a long list of possible crimes.
By Andrew Prokopandrew@vox.com Nov 26, 2019, 4:20pm EST
The investigation into Rudy Giuliani and his associates by the US Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York (SDNY) is heating up, according to a set of new reports and new details suggest prosecutors are looking into matters near the heart of the Ukraine scandal.
The new reports cite subpoenas sent out to various associates of President Trump’s personal attorney by SDNY. The subpoenas reveal that prosecutors are looking into Giuliani’s business and finances, that they’re exploring his contacts with former top Ukrainian officials, and that they’re investigating a host of potential crimes.
Prosecutors are investigating a lot of potential crimes
The Wall Street Journal’s Rebecca Davis O’Brien, Rebecca Ballhaus, and Shelby Holliday had the first major story on the Giuliani associate subpoenas this week. They reported that the subpoenas they’d heard about listed more than a half dozen potential charges under consideration. These were:
  • Obstruction of justice
  • Money laundering
  • Conspiracy to defraud the United States
  • Making false statements to the federal government
  • Serving as agent of a foreign government without registering
  • Donating funds from foreign nationals
  • Making contributions in the name of another person or allowing someone else to use one’s name
  • Mail fraud
  • Wire fraud
That’s ... a lot. Many of these potential crimes relate to foreign influence either about unregistered foreign lobbying or getting foreign money into the campaign finance system. Others are more typical crimes, such as obstruction and fraud.
We can expect to hear more soon.
Will he turn like Cohen?
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 3614 of 4573 (867544)
11-27-2019 2:35 PM


And now Mulvaney & other White House aides coverup
quote:
White House review turns up emails showing extensive effort to justify Trump’s decision to block Ukraine military aid
A confidential White House review of President Trump’s decision to place a hold on military aid to Ukraine has turned up hundreds of documents that reveal extensive efforts to generate an after-the-fact justification for the decision and a debate over whether the delay was legal, according to three people familiar with the records.
The research by the White House Counsel’s Office, which was triggered by a congressional impeachment inquiry announced in September, includes early August email exchanges between acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney and White House budget officials seeking to provide an explanation for withholding the funds after the president had already ordered a hold in mid-July ...
One person briefed on the records examination said White House lawyers are expressing concern that the review has turned up some unflattering exchanges and facts that could at a minimum embarrass the president. It’s unclear whether the Mulvaney discussions or other records pose any legal problems for Trump in the impeachment inquiry, but some fear they could pose political problems if revealed publicly.
In the early August email exchanges, Mulvaney asked acting OMB director Russell Vought for an update on the legal rationale for withholding the aid and how much longer it could be delayed. Trump had made the decision the prior month without an assessment of the reasoning or legal justification, according to two White House officials. Emails show Vought and OMB staffers arguing that withholding aid was legal, while officials at the National Security Council and State Department protested. OMB lawyers said that it was legal to withhold the aid, as long as they deemed it a temporary hold, according to people familiar with the review.
Mulvaney’s request for information came days after the White House Counsel’s Office was put on notice that an anonymous CIA official had made a complaint to the agency’s general counsel about Trump’s July 25 call to Zelensky during which he requested Ukraine investigate former vice president Joe Biden and his son Hunter Biden, as well as an unfounded theory that Ukraine interfered in the 2016 U.S. presidential election.
This official would later file a whistleblower complaint with the intelligence community’s inspector general, which ignited the impeachment push when its existence became public.
Mulvaney is a critical player in the Ukraine saga, as he has acknowledged that he asked the OMB to block the release of congressionally approved aid to Ukraine at the president’s request in early or mid-July 2019. ...
The legal office launched this fact-finding review of internal records in a protective mode, both to determine what the records might reveal about internal administration conversations and also to help the White House produce a timeline for defending Trump’s decision and his public comments. Along with examining documents, the review has also involved interviewing some key White House officials involved in handling Ukraine aid and dealing with complaints and concerns in the aftermath of the call between Trump and Zelensky.
Cipollone’s office has focused closely on correspondence that could be subject to public records requests, those which involve discussions between staff at the White House and at other agencies. Internal White House records are not subject to federal public records law, but messages that include officials at federal agencies are.
Also included in the review are email communications between OMB and State Department officials and others discussing why the White House was holding up nearly $400 million in military aid and whether the hold might violate the law, one person said. In December 2018, months before the Ukraine issue surfaced as a top priority for the president, the Government Accountability Office had warned the OMB it was not following the law in how it chose to disburse and withhold congressionally approved funds.
In other words, coverup.
We may not have tapes as happened with Nixon, but we have something they didn't have: e-mails.
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 3615 of 4573 (867546)
11-27-2019 2:55 PM


Now the OMB and more on the attempt at coverup ...
quote:
Impeachment Witness Deposition Reveals Why They Were Told To Hold Ukraine Aid
Newly released transcripts from the deposition of Mark Sandy, an official at the White House Office of Management and Budget (OMB), reveal that OMB was allegedly instructed to withhold aid to Ukraine because President Donald Trump was concerned about other countries not contributing more to Ukraine.
Rep. Lee Zeldin (R-NY) responded to the release of the transcripts from the deposition, which happened on Chairman Adam Schiff’s House Intelligence Committee, by writing on Twitter, The transcript for OMB’s Mark Sandy was just released. The ONLY reason he was ever given why there was a hold on $ to Ukraine was ‘the President’s concern about other countries not contributing more to Ukraine.’ NOT bribery. NOT quid pro quo or any other WACKY Schiff conspiracy!
The problems with this "explanation" are
First, there is no record of any request for other aid,
Second, there is no record of this condition being approved by congress (as there was for the previous aid for release by Biden), and
Third, there is no record of any aid received by Ukraine from other countries before the aid was released.
In other words, it's a coverup, another White House lie.
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 3616 of 4573 (867553)
11-27-2019 4:11 PM


The Broader reason for impeachment -- from the Founding Fathers
quote:
Trump’s Crime Against America
The president’s offense is abusing his power to stay in office, not disputing Ukraine policy.
November 22, 2019
Over the past two weeks, a parade of sober and coldly furious civil servants has come forward to testify before Congress about President Donald Trump’s decision to withhold congressionally approved aid to Ukraine.
All of these arguments, ranging from the weak to the false, obscure the core reason for the impeachment inquiry, which is that the Trump administration was engaged in a conspiracy against American democracy. Fearing that the 2016 election was a fluke in which Trump prevailed only because of a successful Russian hacking and disinformation campaign, and a last-minute intervention on Trump’s behalf by the very national-security state Trump defenders supposedly loathe, Trump and his advisers sought to rig the 2020 election by forcing a foreign country to implicate the then-Democratic front-runner in a crime that did not take place. ...
It was, in short, a conspiracy by Trump and his advisers to keep themselves in power, the exact scenario for which the Framers of the Constitution devised the impeachment clause. This scheme was carried out by Trump-appointed officials, and by the president’s personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, running a corrupt back channel aimed at, in his words, meddling in an investigation. ...
As the Trump-appointed U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland testified Wednesday, Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky had to announce the investigations. He didn’t actually have to do them, as I understood it. And as the U.S. official David Holmes told the House Intelligence Committee, Sondland had told him that Trump was merely concerned about ‘big stuff’ that benefits the president, like the, quote-unquote, ‘Biden investigation’ that Mr. Giuliani was pushing.
This point is crucial. Trump was not concerned about corruption in Ukrainehis own Pentagon and State Department had certified that Ukraine had taken sufficient steps to root out corruption. Nor was Trump particularly interested in an actual investigation of Joe and Hunter Bidenwhat he wanted was a public accusation that he could use to cripple a political rival’s aspirations. Trump was not defying the bipartisan war lobby in an effort to extricate the U.S. from foreign entanglements, and he was not engaged in a dispute over policy with unelected bureaucrats pursuing their own agenda, because he was fundamentally uninterested in the policy in question, except in that it might be exploited to benefit him personally.
A president who was genuinely opposed to U.S. entanglement in Ukraine, concerned about corruption, or involved in an internal struggle with bureaucrats over the ideal policy toward Ukraine would not have released the aid, because those concerns would have remained unaddressed. A president defying the bipartisan war lobby, seeking to prevent U.S. aid from being misused, or seeking to develop a better Ukraine policy would have had no reason to be concerned by the complaint. But the aid was released because a corrupt scheme to defraud the American people had been exposed, and so withholding it served no further purpose.
quote:
Why Republicans Aren't Turning on Trump
The Framers underestimated the extent to which a demagogue might convince his supporters that the president and the people are one and the same.
September 26, 2019
As Jeffrey Engel writes in Impeachment: An American History, the authors of the Constitution foresaw the possibility of a corrupt president who abuses his power to stay in office. James Madison argued at the Constitutional Convention that it was indispensable that some provision should be made for defending the community against the incapacity, negligence, or perfidy of the chief magistrate. George Mason asked, Shall the man who has practised corruption and by that means procured his appointment in the first instance, be suffered to escape punishment, by repeating his guilt? And as Gouverneur Morris concisely put it, This Magistrate is not the King but the Prime Minister. The people are the King.
This is one reason that perceptions among Democrats shifted so fast. In a republic, the people are sovereign. The president used his authority to criminalize or suppress his political rivals, in violation of the people’s right to choose their leadership. His acts exemplify the scenario the Framers feared when they contemplated a corrupt president using executive power to keep himself in office, unaccountable to the people who elected him. Trump’s conduct here is not just impeachable; it is why the impeachment clause exists.
What they did not imagine was an equally corrupt Senate Majority Leader complicit in this attack on America.
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Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 3622 of 4573 (867702)
12-01-2019 4:55 PM


Interference with the JURY? Recusal of tampered senators?
quote:
Trump opens up Camp David as an ‘adult playground’ to woo GOP lawmakers during impeachment
Since then, Mulvaney and top White House officials have hosted weekend getaways for Republicans at the historic lodge, seeking to butter up Republicans before the big impeachment vote. The casual itinerary includes making s’mores over the campfire, going hiking, shooting clay pigeons and schmoozing with Trump officials, some of whom stay overnight with lawmakers.
During dinners, Trump has called in to compliment members personally.
I’ve worked with a number of Republican presidents over various administrations ... and I’ve never, ever been invited to Camp David, said Rep. Ann Wagner (R-Mo.). It was amazing to go for the short weekend. So historic.
The Camp David excursions are one prong of a broad White House charm offensive, meant to hold House and Senate Republicans in line through a House impeachment vote and a trial in the Senate that appears all but inevitable.
Never shy to feud with his own party, Trump has for weeks refrained from full-throated attacks against Republicans who have been even remotely critical of the conduct now under scrutiny by the House: The president’s attempts to pressure Ukraine to investigate former vice president Joe Biden and the Democratic National Committee.
The White House has made sure that a small clutch of Republican lawmakers have accompanied Trump to a trio of recent sporting events, whether at the Ultimate Fighting Championship in New York, the World Series in Washington or at the football game in Tuscaloosa, Ala., between the University of Alabama and Louisiana State University
The systematic courting may prove to be one pivotal factor if Republican lawmakers continue to rally behind Trump, who is almost certain to become the third U.S. president in history to become impeached by the House in the coming weeks. The idea, at least for the Camp David getaways, is to make Republicans feel as if they are part of Trump’s family and make it more difficult for them to vote in favor of impeaching him.
The administration-wide effort to court Republicans was described by 20 lawmakers, administration officials, congressional aides and others familiar with the endeavor.
In all, Trump has met with or reached out personally to 100 GOP members of the House since the impeachment inquiry was launched, and 50 of the 53 Senate Republicans have attended a White House lunch where chicken is often served with the president. More than 40 House Republicans, from moderates to conservatives, have made the visit to Camp David at the invitation of Mulvaney and the legislative affairs team who have invited groups of about 10 for overnight stays.
Multiple lawmakers who have visited the retreat nearly 90 miles from Washington have described the trips as surreal and incredible, according to a half-dozen lawmakers and aides familiar with the outings. An invitation is now considered the envy of the conference, according to one member who attended.
It’s an impressive effort to engage at the member level, said the GOP lawmaker, who like several others spoke on the condition of anonymity to speak candidly about the coveted invites. My colleagues have been blown away by it. And by the way, notice Republicans are united on impeachment.
In any court of law this would be called tampering with the Jury.
quote:
Impeachment in the United States
Impeachment in the United States is the process by which a legislature (usually in the form of the lower house) brings charges against a civil officer of government for crimes alleged to have been committed, analogous to the bringing of an indictment by a grand jury. At the federal level, this is at the discretion of the House of Representatives. Most impeachments have concerned alleged crimes committed while in office, though there have been a few cases in which officials have been impeached and subsequently convicted for crimes committed prior to taking office.[1] The impeached official remains in office until a trial is held. That trial, and their removal from office if convicted, is separate from the act of impeachment itself. Analogous to a trial before a judge and jury, these proceedings are (where the legislature is bicameral) conducted by the upper house of the legislature, which at the federal level is the Senate. However, impeachment is not a criminal proceeding, as the defendant does not risk forfeiture of life, liberty or property; the only penalties are removal from office and disqualification from holding further federal office.
The proceedings unfold in the form of a trial, with each side having the right to call witnesses and perform cross-examinations. The House members, who are given the collective title of managers during the course of the trial, present the prosecution case, and the impeached official has the right to mount a defense with his or her own attorneys as well. Senators must also take an oath or affirmation that they will perform their duties honestly and with due diligence. After hearing the charges, the Senate usually deliberates in private. The Constitution requires a two-thirds super majority to convict a person being impeached.[29] The Senate enters judgment on its decision, whether that be to convict or acquit, and a copy of the judgment is filed with the Secretary of State.[19] Upon conviction in the Senate, the official is automatically removed from office and may also be barred from holding future office.
To convict an accused, "the concurrence of two thirds of the [Senators] present" for at least one article is required. If there is no single charge commanding a "guilty" vote of two-thirds majority of the senators present, the defendant is acquitted and no punishment is imposed.
Now we have a situation where some senators have a conflict of interest, in that they have met with the president to discuss the impeachment, and received favored treatment at the specific behest of the president.
Shouldn't they recuse themselves from the proceedings?
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Replies to this message:
 Message 3623 by JonF, posted 12-01-2019 4:57 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 3624 of 4573 (867726)
12-02-2019 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 3623 by JonF
12-01-2019 4:57 PM


Re: Interference with the JURY? Recusal of tampered senators?
Hell, the jury already met with the accused to plan the trial.
While the GOPs been complaining about due process etc etc etc -- so everyone that met with Dumbty on how to plan the trial should recuse themselves from the jury.
Or they are guilty of jury tampering.
Meanwhile Dumbty has been screaming about when he gets to call witnesses and cross-examine them, so he's invited to the next hearing to provide his input and provide any exculpatory evidence he has and ...
... he takes a pass
quote:
Impeachment inquiry: Trump and his lawyers refuse to attend 'unfair' hearing
President Donald Trump and his lawyers will not participate in a congressional impeachment hearing this week, the White House has said, citing a lack of fundamental fairness.
Trump’s aides responded defiantly on Sunday to the first of two crucial deadlines he faces in Congress this week as Democrats prepare to shift the focus of their impeachment inquiry from fact-finding to the consideration of possible charges of misconduct over his dealings with Ukraine.
The Democratic-led House of Representatives judiciary committee, tasked with considering charges known as articles of impeachment, had given Trump until 6pm on Sunday to say whether he would send a lawyer to take part in the judiciary panel’s proceedings on Wednesday.
White House counsel Pat Cipollone wrote to committee chairman Jerrold Nadler, according to a copy of a letter seen by Reuters: We cannot fairly be expected to participate in a hearing while the witnesses are yet to be named and while it remains unclear whether the judiciary committee will afford the president a fair process through additional hearings.
Cipollone cited a complete lack of due process and fundamental fairness afforded the president in the impeachment process but did not rule out participation in further proceedings. But he signalled that Democrats would first have to make major procedural concessions.
There is no "due process" in impeachment hearings. That happens in the Senate, which is the trial.
Coward doesn't want to attend, even after special consideration was provided.
Whine whine whine. The democrats do not need to do squat to continue hearings with or without Dumbty.
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 3627 of 4573 (867788)
12-03-2019 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 3625 by Percy
12-02-2019 10:41 PM


Re: Doing what’s right versus Doing what’s right for me
Democrats have to do what’s right for the nation instead of what’s right for their re-election, otherwise they just become the same as those who have lost their moral compass while caught in Trump’s apparently mesmerizing glare.
I agree, but also with dwise1 that it is important to gain the Senate and keep the House.
If they don't include items from the Mueller report, then we might as well forget about any future special prosecutors investigating presidents -- in essence giving them special privileges that don't apply to anyone else.
Personally I think they can only do that if they stand on a united firm ground of pursuing documented infractions of obstruction of justice, abuse of power, endangering national security, intimidating witnesses, and possibly of lying to people/congress with his twitter comments (not made under oath) during the hearings, and letting the Senate determine which if any of them are grounds for dismissal.
They should also be vocal about Trumpty wining and dining Senators before the trial being improper and an abuse of power (tampering with the jury)
They should also be vocal about Trumpty discussing how the Senate trial should proceed with #MoscowMitch being improper and an abuse of power.
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This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 3630 of 4573 (867848)
12-04-2019 3:39 AM
Reply to: Message 3628 by Percy
12-03-2019 8:51 PM


Re: Doing what’s right versus Doing what’s right for me
I agree, but also with dwise1 that it is important to gain the Senate and keep the House.
Politically, sure. Morally, no.
Morally because the House and Senate do not truly represent the people when gerrymandering and voter suppression laws and massive amounts of money determine race "victories" not votes. If the current system of voting is immoral, then we need to fix that, and that means bipartisan agreement of enough politicians to do that, and voting out those that don't or won't agree.
Yes. The other kind of witness tampering I was thinking of was holding out the possibility of a pardon.
Which it looks like is included in the report.
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This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
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Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
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Message 3644 of 4573 (867949)
12-05-2019 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 3641 by Percy
12-05-2019 8:48 AM


Re: Why is this not collusion?
Why is this not considered highly inappropriate collusion between the defendant and the trial judges?
You mean defendant and jury don't you?
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 Message 3645 by AZPaul3, posted 12-05-2019 10:37 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 3647 of 4573 (867970)
12-05-2019 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 3646 by Taq
12-05-2019 11:22 AM


Re: Democrats Should Accept Advice of Republican Witness
When Trump is impeached and it moves to a trial in the Senate I think there will be much more power behind subpoenas. I don't see any legal path for anyone to refuse testifying, so I think it is a good idea to push into the trial phase.
But if the subpoenas are issued now they have more time to work through the courts. Lump them all together into one court case of obstruction. Put them out there now, so that obstruction of justice can be documented when they refuse and it goes to court/s.
I would list
  1. Mike Pompeo
  2. Mick Mulvaney
  3. Rudy Giulliano
  4. Lev Parnas
  5. Devin Nunes
  6. Fareed Zakaria (CNN host)
  7. Ukrainian aides to Zelenski (per Fareed)
For starters ...
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmericanZenDeist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 3646 by Taq, posted 12-05-2019 11:22 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3648 by Taq, posted 12-05-2019 1:06 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 3661 of 4573 (868108)
12-07-2019 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 3648 by Taq
12-05-2019 1:06 PM


Arrest those suckers ...
RAZD writes:
But if the subpoenas are issued now they have more time to work through the courts.
I think it is rather cynical to even ask the courts to rule on whether someone has to obey a subpoena. I don't see how someone can question such a basic and fundamental constitutional power. If a citizen stated, "You know, I don't think I have to obey a subpoena," what would happen to them? I would think most courts would laugh at them, and hold them in contempt. People have been jailed for months for simply refusing to testify. How is this not settled law?
Agreed, and I would have thought that the Supreme Court ruling on the Nixon subpoenas would have settled the matter.
Perhaps the dems should have those who have ignored the subpoenas arrested -- the way every other citizen would be treated.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmericanZenDeist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3648 by Taq, posted 12-05-2019 1:06 PM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3662 by ringo, posted 12-07-2019 11:52 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied
 Message 3666 by dwise1, posted 12-07-2019 6:21 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
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