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Author Topic:   Christianity is Morally Bankrupt
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 390 of 652 (867632)
11-29-2019 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 389 by Phat
11-29-2019 3:35 PM


Re: Mainstream Christian Belief
Phat writes:
Do you think Paul was himself a con?
At times, absolutely. A great example is the "Temple of the Unknown God" gambit. It works. But we need to be honest and acknowledge when marketing happens and separate the acceptable marketing from what should not be acceptable. And that's the really hard part. What actually sells the steak and what is just selling the sizzle. One presents the reality while the other markets a fantasy.
Phat writes:
One thing I like about Paul is that he teaches us to see an unknown god as a knowable God through Jesus. Do you see that in his teaching?
At times. But the problem is that in modern Christianity the current crop of Snake Oil Salesmen only take pieces parts out of context. They sell John 3:16 but not the rest of the passage that explains what is being discussed is not Jesus but rather human behavior. They take nuggets out of Romans but neglect the fact that it is a long memo where the second have answer the issues raised in the beginning.
The Carny Spiel-man knows his audience has the attention span of a dormouse and that his job is to get them to buy the ticket. It's not to waste effort delivering the product advertised.
Take an example I know you and I have discussed a brazillion times; the "I have fought the good fight ..." soliloquy.
How often do you see it taught as "I have fought THE GOOD fight..." "I have RUN the race..."
How often has the lesson of discrimination; not of winning but of selecting the Good fight; not of winning the race but RUNNING the race? Why is Christianity marketed as the EASY path, the goal at the end, the reward to be gained rather than the call to do, to try, the little things that make even just your immediate surrounding better, the quiet unrewarded and mostly unnoticed small acts that make someone's day just a little better.
You so often talk about a Social Club yet seem to miss the fact that those on the outside look at fundamental evangelical Christianity and that is exactly what they see; a feel good mutual masturbation orgy held once a week in a tax exempt clubhouse.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 389 by Phat, posted 11-29-2019 3:35 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 391 by Phat, posted 11-29-2019 4:34 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 392 of 652 (867634)
11-29-2019 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 391 by Phat
11-29-2019 4:34 PM


Re: Mainstream Christian Belief
Phat writes:
I feel it is totally honest to sell the message of Christ in us.
But what does that even mean? Where's the beef?
Phat writes:
But you believe that anyone who calls themselves a Christian automatically is one, whereas the evidence that I have seen is that it is a transition. A renewing of the mind.
Again, what does that even mean? What the hell is a "renewing of the mind"? Where's the beef?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 391 by Phat, posted 11-29-2019 4:34 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 401 by Phat, posted 11-30-2019 12:02 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 402 of 652 (867659)
11-30-2019 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 401 by Phat
11-30-2019 12:02 PM


Re: Mainstream Christian Belief
I mean what the hell does that word salad even mean?
Modern Fundamental Evangelical Christianity seems to be nothing but feel good slogans and FUD (Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt). It appears to be 100% marketing but with absolutely no actual product. It's not even selling the sizzle, it's selling the imaginary sizzle.
What the hell is a "renewing of the mind"?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 401 by Phat, posted 11-30-2019 12:02 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 407 by Phat, posted 11-30-2019 2:57 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 409 of 652 (867672)
11-30-2019 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 407 by Phat
11-30-2019 2:57 PM


Re: Mainstream Christian Belief
Phat writes:
God becomes real initially through simple faith and belief but becomes knowable through interaction.
Gods can only exist as long as there are believers. This is true of all the Gods.
There has never been any evidence of any interaction between humans and God. There are lots of tales of interaction, all equally likely. Some examples are the God talking with Adam & Eve and Thetis dunking Achilles and Muhammad taking notes from Jibril or Artemis turning Actaeon into a deer and setting his own hounds on him because he stared at her while she was bathing.
So yes, we can know God through the tales of their interactions with humans.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 407 by Phat, posted 11-30-2019 2:57 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 415 by Phat, posted 12-01-2019 11:18 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 418 of 652 (867686)
12-01-2019 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 415 by Phat
12-01-2019 11:18 AM


Re: Mainstream Christian Belief
Phat writes:
You are treating God (and/or the Risen Christ) the exact same way that you treat Santa Claus.
How is "the Risen Christ" different than Santa Claus?
Phat writes:
It puts 100% of the responsibility of good works on me.
Why would that be a problem?
Phat writes:
but one may find that in these times we live in, altruistic humanism is not enough.
Yup. I believe I may have mentioned once or twice that Fundamental Evangelical Christianity is the single greatest threat to humanity that exists today.
Edited by jar, : fix quotebox

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 415 by Phat, posted 12-01-2019 11:18 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 419 by Phat, posted 12-01-2019 12:29 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 420 of 652 (867689)
12-01-2019 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 419 by Phat
12-01-2019 12:29 PM


Fundamental Evangelical Christianity is the greatest threat to the world today
Fundamental Evangelical Christianity is divorced from reality and so the greatest threat to the continuation of humanity. US Fundamental Evangelical Christianity is the greatest of that group because it is the only body that actually has the capability to destroy humanity and since they are divorced from reality and sanity believe it is possible to destroy "THEM".

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 419 by Phat, posted 12-01-2019 12:29 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 421 by Phat, posted 12-01-2019 3:40 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 422 of 652 (867697)
12-01-2019 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 421 by Phat
12-01-2019 3:40 PM


Re: Fundamental Evangelical Christianity is the greatest threat to the world today
Phat writes:
Are you suggesting that they see everyone not as themselves (having a transformed mind)as the enemy?
Yes! And nonsense like "having a transformed mind" is the realm of the Carny Side Show; yet another sign of total disconnect from reality.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 421 by Phat, posted 12-01-2019 3:40 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 423 by Phat, posted 12-01-2019 4:24 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 424 of 652 (867704)
12-01-2019 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 423 by Phat
12-01-2019 4:24 PM


Re: The Romans Road--Not A Carny Sideshow
Quote mining. Palming the Pea. Misdirecting attention.
Utterly pointless.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 423 by Phat, posted 12-01-2019 4:24 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 432 by Phat, posted 12-02-2019 3:16 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 434 of 652 (867717)
12-02-2019 7:14 AM
Reply to: Message 432 by Phat
12-02-2019 3:16 AM


Re: The Romans Road--Not A Carny Sideshow
Phat writes:
Whose attention am I attempting to misdirect?
In your case you are simply trying to misdirect YOU.
Phat writes:
You can't simply use the Bible to support your positions while denying me the same privilege.
The issue is HOW you use the Bible. You take pieces parts to try to support your position. I take all of it and simply acknowledge that what is written is what the authors intended to be written.
Phat writes:
This whole idea that everybody gets a free pass is a joke.
But I have never claimed that anybody, anybody at all, gets a free pass. It is the Apologists and Conmen who market the idea that there is a free pass.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 432 by Phat, posted 12-02-2019 3:16 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 436 by Phat, posted 12-02-2019 7:39 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 437 of 652 (867720)
12-02-2019 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 436 by Phat
12-02-2019 7:39 AM


Re: The Romans Road--Not A Carny Sideshow
Phat writes:
The apologists try and sell the belief that we actually know neither ultimate good nor ultimate evil and are incapable of learning. They market the solution.
No one but the conmen even claim that there is some ultimate good or ultimate evil. The market both the problem as well as the alleged solution but there is zero evidence that the product they market works or even exists.
Phat writes:
You put the whole responsibility of the transformation on us.
Yes, that is correct. Stop taking pieces parts out of Romans. Read the whole letter. No one but you can change you.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 436 by Phat, posted 12-02-2019 7:39 AM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 442 of 652 (867729)
12-02-2019 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 441 by ringo
12-02-2019 11:07 AM


Re: The Romans Road--Not A Carny Sideshow
If they would read the Bible they might even come across the origin of the name "Israel", AkA Jacob. It's significant but another thing modern Fundamentalist Evangelical Christianity & the CCoI does not teach.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 441 by ringo, posted 12-02-2019 11:07 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 475 of 652 (867898)
12-04-2019 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 474 by Phat
12-04-2019 4:28 PM


Re: Mainstream Christian Belief
Phat writes:
It seems to me that you let critical thinking and evidence talk you out of your belief.
What is it called when someone does not allow the evidence and critical analysis to override beliefs?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 474 by Phat, posted 12-04-2019 4:28 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 527 of 652 (868116)
12-07-2019 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 525 by Phat
12-07-2019 12:32 PM


Re: The purpose of it all
So in Heaven humans will not be free.
You pays your nickle and you takes your chances.
The problem Phat is that what you describe as "Mainstream Christianity" is nothing but an accumulation of contradictions and absurdities.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 525 by Phat, posted 12-07-2019 12:32 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 528 by Phat, posted 12-07-2019 12:53 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 537 of 652 (868129)
12-07-2019 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 528 by Phat
12-07-2019 12:53 PM


Re: The Stories We Invent
And see the post right below your post.
Phat, either Heaven will have sin as well as not sinning or the folk in heaven will have no freedom of choice.
Sorry but what you market as "Mainstream Christianity" is simply silly.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 528 by Phat, posted 12-07-2019 12:53 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 539 by Phat, posted 12-07-2019 3:05 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 547 of 652 (868151)
12-07-2019 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 539 by Phat
12-07-2019 3:05 PM


Phat writes:
We are judged by what we do, but we are forgiven based on what we confess.
But again, that is contrary to what the Bible claims Jesus says.
Remember Matt 25?
Remember Not all who say Lord Lord?
If we are forgiven is will not be based on what we confess or what we believe or what we say or what we do; it will be by the Grace of God.
If we are damned it will be because of what we do not do.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 539 by Phat, posted 12-07-2019 3:05 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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