|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,488 Year: 3,745/9,624 Month: 616/974 Week: 229/276 Day: 5/64 Hour: 0/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Christianity is Morally Bankrupt | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
Survival of the species. Why would a mindless process evolve to bring about creatures that are prepared to sacrifice their lives for others.?"If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
On the contrary, the body has millions of heads. It just has no figurehead. We figured out a long time ago that two heads are better than one and many hands make light work. It's our hands that are doing all the work. The only difference between my idealized "Body of Christ" and your hoped-for global communion of socialism is that your body has no head. And that may prove to be a BIG difference."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
Evolution 101.
Where is the evidence for that? GDR writes:
All social species, for sure. Ants and bees are particularly obvious example.
Which species would qualify? GDR writes:
Indirectly, yes. He wants his buddies to survive to propagate the species.
Do you really think that a soldier who throws himself on a grenade to save his buddies is thinking that he has to keep the species going? GDR writes:
Right and wrong has nothing to do with some alien mind. It's about what's right or wrong for us, our species. Occasionally we take some other species into account too but mostly because it benefits us. Even a world that is the result of mindlessness why is anything right or wrong."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
Everything is physicality, including the mind.
which is about evolving physicality. GDR writes:
Why is "conscious choice" important? Parents don't make a concious choice to feed their children, do they?
OK, but do they have a consciousness that makes what they are doing a conscious choice? GDR writes:
Again, why is that important? We do some things to preserve ourselves and some things to preserve our friends/family/tribe/species. The internal conflicts about what to preserve are the cause of most of our problems.
..but it also means that his own specific gene pool is coming to an abrupt halt. GDR writes:
As it turns out, slavery is not economically viable after all. And by helping the Africans in Africa, we make them less likely to come over here to compete directly with us. Human behaviour is more complex than some spook telling us what to do. I can see where it would be a benefit to us to enslave the Africans that would be useful and slaughter the rest so that we could benefit from their resources."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
GDR writes:
No, that's what the evidence shows. The mind can be altered by chemicals, therefore it is physical - and there is certainly no evidence of anything spooky altering the mind.
ringo writes:
That is your belief. Everything is physicality, including the mind. GDR writes:
So you have to go back before there was any evidence to ignore the evidence.
I agree with Plato that the brain is an instrument of the mind. GDR writes:
Sure, it's possible to make a conscious choice to do the wrong thing. That's a weak plank to build your position on.
ringo writes:
They kinda do because over history some have chosen not to. Parents don't make a concious choice to feed their children, do they? GDR writes:
A remember you objecting to me equating your God with the Tooth Fairy. You can object all you like but facts is facts. I'm not going to cover them up in the name of civility. Using the term spook isn't really the way to facilitate a civil discussion."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You've never been able to explain why He wouldn't. And you've also never been able to explain why Christians are no different from non-Christians. It seems pretty obvious that He is letting both you and me "be the way we are now". I also think it incredulous that jar and ringo think a good God would let everyone be the way they are now."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
Phat writes:
We stole the knowledge of good and evil, against God's will. Compare with Prometheus stealing fire from the gods. A lot of religions have humans in contention with the gods - i.e growing up. Initially, we accepted the knowledge of good and evil."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
I'm saying that's what the evidence shows. There is no evidence that the mind is separate from the brain.
The working of the brain can be altered by chemicals but that doesn't require an altering of the mind. GDR writes:
You're misusing either the term "evidence" or the term "theoretical", or both. All theories use the same evidence.
The evidence you offer though is theoretical... GDR writes:
Not at all. I only know of one theory - you have none. And I have no "desired outcome". I'm only following the evidence.
... and you choose the theory that is consistent with your desired outcome. GDR writes:
"Why" anything exists is because it offers an evolutionary survival benefit.
It still wouldn't address the iissue of why it exists at all... GDR writes:
Scientifically, we can not postulate an unevidenced intelligence. We can not say that something "must have" originated from an unevidenced intelligence. ... whthere it now its root cause is from intelligence or mindlessness. And the alternative is not "mindlessness"; it's the laws of physics.
GDR writes:
The ridicule is just a bonus. It isn't intended or needed to reinforce the point. It seems to me that if you have to resort to ridicule to make your point, then maybe your point isn't very strong."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
If Lewis was a member of EvC, I might read his posts. As it is, I'm not going to read a wall of text that's attributed to him. Lewis explains the transformation better than I could. If you understand what he said, put it in your own words.
Phat writes:
The same applies to non-Christians - so no difference.
ringo writes:
The difference is subtle. We are works in progress. Some things became clear from Day One, while other things take time to let go of. And you've also never been able to explain why Christians are no different from non-Christians. Phat writes:
But that's just bullshit. They didn't "die to self" any more or less than non-Christians do.
And I might add that unlike jars assertion, Christians are not simply Christians because they say they are. They are Christians because Christ came into them and they died to self. Phat writes:
The same for non-Christians - so no difference. It is a slow process, for we don't all die at once. Many parts of our personality are hard to let go of. And by the way, Christianity can be hard to let go of too. And when you do, it can be a tremendous weight off your shoulders - so no difference.
Phat writes:
Explain it yourself.
Lewis also explains this. Phat writes:
More bullshit. Yes, ringo---God does not simply accept us as we are in current attitude. No drunks allowed at this gathering."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
That's just one person's opinion. It doesn't count as evidence.
ringo writes:
Well there is and I linked it in my last post. There is no evidence that the mind is separate from the brain. GDR writes:
It's an emergent property of matter.
....but why does evolution or the concept of evolutionary survival exist at all? GDR writes:
No. Sticking with the science is not a non-scientific belief.
Whether we contend that that we are the result of unevidenced intelligence or not is a matter of non-scientific belief. GDR writes:
You're equivocating judicial laws with laws of nature. There's no reason to think the laws of nature require a "lawmaker". ringo writes:
Sure, but is the lawmaker intelligent or not is the question. And the alternative is not "mindlessness"; it's the laws of physics."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
What makes you think you understand better than Hawking? As brilliant as he was, his mind could not understand Lou Gehrig's disease. What makes you think he understands the universe well enough to bump God off of the podium?"If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's what it's for. It's critical thinking and evidence that talk you out of believing in monsters under the bed. You should never let belief talk you out of critical thinking.
It seems to me that you let critical thinking and evidence talk you out of your belief. Phat writes:
Impossible. I've never read a word by militant atheist writers.
I blame the militant atheist writers. They have an agenda to eliminate God-centered thinking. Phat writes:
Word salad. My understanding supports my belief. Your understanding eliminated yours."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
Yes, there are conflicts between survival of the species and survival of the individual. There is no simple answer to "why" a soldier leans a certain way at a certain time. "God" certainly doesn't answer the question.
Firstly even on a biological level it makes no sense as the soldier in question is out trying to kill other members of the species so he is selectively choose which ones to die for and which ones to kill. GDR writes:
The question doesn't make any more sense than, "Why does gravity occur at all?" Gravity is. Evolution is. It's interesting to know how they work but "why" the exist is empty philosophy.
But more importantly when the question is asked about why evolution occurs at all the answer is evolution. GDR writes:
You're jumping into the middle of a string of processes. You're congratulating yourself for accepting evolution but you're rejecting the chemical processes that cause evolution. I am not questioning the evolutionary process."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's because you redefine the word cruel: If God does it, it isn't cruel.
How then do you know God is cruel? We certainly don't. phat writes:
Nobody is asking you for God's opinion on anything. You're being asked what you think.
And we can't just give you answers on what His opinion of your question is. Phat writes:
And apparently your apologist idols haven't made up a canned answer for you. I can pray that He reveals something to me, but I cant make up an answer on His behalf."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
No, that is not my position. I have not said anything about "doing fine". All I have said is that Adam and Eve did not die that day. And they didn't. They had long and productive lives, which is all that any of us can hope for.
And Taq, you know jar and ringos basic position, yes? That God told our ancestors that if we disobeyed we would die while the cunning serpent told us that we would do fine with our new knowledge of good and evil. Phat writes:
It is. The snake told the truth. You have not been able to show any apologetics that can turn the truth upside down. Which they claim is the truth."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024