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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News (renamed)
caffeine
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From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
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(3)
Message 3631 of 3817 (867486)
11-26-2019 4:38 AM
Reply to: Message 3626 by RAZD
11-25-2019 2:25 PM


Re: Impeachment debacle
The president of Ukraine scheduled an interview/appearance on CNN

(...)

Then the CNN interview/appearance was cancelled.

This is, I think, the important bit. People keep talking about Trump withholding aid unless Ukraine launched politically-motivated investigations. But that does not seem to be quite the right interpretation from the testimony. It was less about doing any actual investigation, it was about announcing an investigation on English-language TV. This was all clearly for US-domestic consumption.


This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
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Message 3632 of 3817 (867502)
11-26-2019 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 3631 by caffeine
11-26-2019 4:38 AM


Re: Impeachment debacle
This is, I think, the important bit. People keep talking about Trump withholding aid unless Ukraine launched politically-motivated investigations. But that does not seem to be quite the right interpretation from the testimony. It was less about doing any actual investigation, it was about announcing an investigation on English-language TV. This was all clearly for US-domestic consumption.

Indeed. All Trumpty needed/wanted was the announcement on tv to be able to use that in his campaigns.

Enjoy


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Percy
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Posts: 19086
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 3633 of 3817 (867511)
11-26-2019 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 3533 by Percy
11-21-2019 12:02 PM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
More Trump attack/insult tweets since 11/21. There were several tweets containing lies, but this subthread is only about attacks and insults, some of which also contain lies:


Current attacks/insults score: Trump: 48; Democrats: 1

Faith and Marc: If you're not even going to make a pretense of trying to find the Democrat/news-media attacks and insults that you claim Trump is responding to (rather than initiating unprovoked) then I think you have to concede the point. Trump issues many, many gratuitous insults and attacks on an almost continuous basis user Twitter, his rallies, and speeches.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3533 by Percy, posted 11-21-2019 12:02 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 3634 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-26-2019 1:57 PM Percy has responded
 Message 3641 by marc9000, posted 12-01-2019 4:30 PM Percy has responded

  
Thugpreacha
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Posts: 13375
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3634 of 3817 (867512)
11-26-2019 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 3633 by Percy
11-26-2019 12:51 PM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
I'm curious if anyone bothers to run Trump's tweets through a fact-checker. As a political moderate, I see Trump's tweets as propaganda to energize his base. My question, as a political moderate, is if there is truth behind some of his insinuations.

And I wonder what percentage of the base reads anything beyond the tweets themselves and a favorite Right Wing News source? Any wise constituent of either political persuasion would do well to watch the media that is the ideological opposite of their core beliefs if only to gain somewhat of a perspective.

Finally, I doubt whether Donald trump even compiles his own tweets these days. He likely has a propaganda minister doing it for him. Not that a Democrat wouldnt do the same thing. Politics can be stressful.

Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3633 by Percy, posted 11-26-2019 12:51 PM Percy has responded

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JonF
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Posts: 5619
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 3635 of 3817 (867516)
11-26-2019 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 3634 by Thugpreacha
11-26-2019 1:57 PM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
No Democrat would do what Trump's done.

His tweets are his. He doesn't have the self-control to let someone else do them. Often they are related to something true but he lies just because he always lies. He has no concept of truth. He thinks reality adapts to what he wants it to be.

I look at right-wing news sometimes. It's irritating because the lies are so transparently obvious to anyone who follows other sources (and detects an occasional lie in them). Faith and her ilk absolutely refuse to look outside the big bubble o' lies.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3634 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-26-2019 1:57 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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DrJones*
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Posts: 2025
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 3636 of 3817 (867520)
11-26-2019 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 3635 by JonF
11-26-2019 3:23 PM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
He doesn't have the self-control to let someone else do them

there are some that are obviously written by others, you can tell they have proper spelling and punctuation.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
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Percy
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Posts: 19086
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 3637 of 3817 (867564)
11-27-2019 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 3634 by Thugpreacha
11-26-2019 1:57 PM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
Thugpreacha writes:

My question, as a political moderate, is if there is truth behind some of his insinuations.

I'm not sure why you're asking the question. Whenever Trump says anything self-serving it is almost always without exception self-evidently false. Some things he says contain a kernel of truth or are based upon something true, but the parts that represent his own contributions are invariably false.

What is surprising, even shocking, is the extremely few number of Republicans who cannot see the lies, or who if they can see them see it in their own best interests to deny them while somehow still being able to live with themselves and sleep at night.

But the political costs of backing a liar and criminal appear to be small to non-existent. Can you name a Nixon supporter in Congress who paid a price in terms of the judgment of history?

And while Ford lost to Democrat Carter in the next election after Nixon's resignation, Republicans won the presidency in the election after that and held the presidency for the next 12 years. Had Bush Sr. not raised taxes heading into a recession while facing a third party candidacy in Ross Perot it would have been 16 years and perhaps even more after that (though if the candidate had been Dan Quayle it would never have happened).

And I wonder what percentage of the base reads anything beyond the tweets themselves and a favorite Right Wing News source?

People rarely seek out facts that contradict their beliefs. And if this forum has taught us anything it's that facts don't convince people. People are not so much rational as rationalizers.

So if facts are not how people are convinced then how do you convince people, especially those who are indisputably wrong, like flat-earthers, geocentrists and moon-landing deniers? I don't know.

Any wise constituent of either political persuasion would do well to watch the media that is the ideological opposite of their core beliefs if only to gain somewhat of a perspective.

This contains a hint of treating the media as a source of what opinion to hold. They aren't. They're a source of facts, of information. For example, it is a fact that the White House transcript has Zelensky requesting more Javelins and Trump responding, "I would like you to do us a favor, though." Trump wants favors in return for the Javelins. To any Republicans who claim that's not what Trump meant, just tell them that when the Libyans asked for help against Islamic militant groups that Obama responded, "I would like you to do us a favor, though," and see if suddenly the meaning of those words becomes very clear.

Finally, I doubt whether Donald trump even compiles his own tweets these days. He likely has a propaganda minister doing it for him. Not that a Democrat wouldn't do the same thing. Politics can be stressful.

First, the tweets contain too many simple spelling errors for that to be true, "Donald Ttump", "hamberders" and "lasting peach" for a few glaring examples. Second, how can you be unaware of the high degree of consternation within the Trump administration in their inability to stop him from tweeting?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
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Chiroptera
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Posts: 6837
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 6.6


Message 3638 of 3817 (867694)
12-01-2019 2:41 PM


The Shoe on the Other Foot: Chick-fil-A Edition
From the Guardian:

Chick-fil-A faces rightwing backlash after cutting ties to Christian groups

This hasn't been recent news except that it's ongoing.

Some years ago, Chick-fil-A made news when it became involved with several conservative Christian organizations, especially anti-same sex marriage activities.

Now there seems to be a change in heart. And conservatives aren't happy.

Leading US conservatives have turned on the fast-food restaurant chain Chick-fil-A after the company decided to cut its ties to two Christian groups that have long opposed same-sex marriage.

To compound rightwingers' fury, it has also emerged via tax filings that Chick-fil-A donated to the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), a civil rights advocacy organization, in 2017. The SPLC has a lengthy record of supporting LGBTQ+ and abortion rights.

(The Christian groups mentioned are the Salvation Army and the Fellowship of Christian Athletes.)

Conservative Christians are now in a search for a new Jesus friendly fast food.

"It’s time for Christians to find a fast-food alternative to Chick-fil-A," said Tony Perkins, president of the conservative Family Research Council organization. "Not only has Chick-fil-A abandoned donations to Christian groups including the Salvation Army, it has donated to one of the most extreme anti-Christian groups in America."

For this generation of far-right nationalists, religion is not a question of ethical conduct; it is purely about identity and peoplehood. -- Jan-Werner Müller

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 31771
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 3639 of 3817 (867698)
12-01-2019 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 3638 by Chiroptera
12-01-2019 2:41 PM


Re: The Shoe on the Other Foot: Chick-fil-A Edition
YAY ChicK-fil-A. If they were open today I'd go there for dinner.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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Thugpreacha
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Posts: 13375
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3640 of 3817 (867699)
12-01-2019 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 3637 by Percy
11-27-2019 9:04 PM


Realize-Real Eyes- Real Lies
What is surprising, even shocking, is the extremely few number of Republicans who cannot see the lies, or who if they can see them see it in their own best interests to deny them while somehow still being able to live with themselves and sleep at night.

I honestly think that conservatives believe that not everybody is gonna make it in the future. They know that in order for them to make it, some will have to be sacrificed, likely many. They see the handwriting on the wall economically. They are as a consequence willfully ignorant.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3637 by Percy, posted 11-27-2019 9:04 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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marc9000
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Posts: 1037
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 3641 of 3817 (867701)
12-01-2019 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 3633 by Percy
11-26-2019 12:51 PM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
Faith and Marc: If you're not even going to make a pretense of trying to find the Democrat/news-media attacks and insults that you claim Trump is responding to (rather than initiating unprovoked) then I think you have to concede the point. Trump issues many, many gratuitous insults and attacks on an almost continuous basis user Twitter, his rallies, and speeches.

It would take a lot of effort to go back to 2015 and 2016, to see how the news media / Democrats started out with their war against Trump. To say that they started it would of course be an understatement. Hours of research would only result in one or two sentences from you handwaving it away.

BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER. Trump speaks from the position of president - U.S. presidents have always been considered the most powerful man in the world, and for generations, U.S. presidents are obviously the most hated man in the world. Anything any president says is always carefully scrutinized, and is often immediately, automatically discarded by a sizeable part of the U.S. population, and the world. What immediate, serious harm do you think Trump's insults do to the lives of ordinary citizens?

With the news media, it's another story. Though they're quite powerful, they're not as powerful as the president. But they're not nearly as hated either. They pretend to be "journalists" - people who simply report information. When they lie, when they twist and distort to help one political party, they're betraying a public trust, they're doing something that's not their job. While the public is increasingly getting wise to them, there are still a lot of people who blindly trust them, without bothering to fact check them near as much as they do one president. That does a lot more harm to the country than Trump's tweets.

As you may or may not know, (I don't think it's been in the news much) Trump made an unannounced visit to troops in Afghanistan over the Thanksgiving holiday. Newsweek's quote went like this;

quote:
which the mag said would include “tweeting, golfing and more” — before he ended up making a surprise visit to US troops in Afghanistan.

Trump blasts Newsweek over story on his Thanksgiving plans

But it wasn't a lie!!!!! The "more" that was in this description could have included that! Amazingly, Newsweek says they fired this reporter. What probably inspired them to do that was the fact that his trip couldn't be completely covered up, as couldn't the pictures and videos that so obviously show Trump's admiration and respect for low level U.S. soldiers. But a lot of Newsweek skimmers don't know a thing about that firing, or that trip for that matter, so they were successfully fooled. This is only one of countless examples of how the news media can twist and distort without actually lying. It does far more damage to society than Trump's tweets.

Here's another link for you and RAZD to enjoy.

Fake News Craps All Over Trump’s Thanksgiving Afghanistan Visit With The Troops

quote:
If Trump did it, the fake news is going to crap on it. The President made a surprise Thanksgiving visit with the troops in Afghanistan and the liberal media found a way to make it negative. At this point the temper tantrum known as Trump Derangement Syndrome is less about being personally offended by the results of an election and more about liberals being unhappy with themselves. These are self-loathing people who are trying desperately to make everyone as miserable as they are.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3633 by Percy, posted 11-26-2019 12:51 PM Percy has responded

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ringo
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Posts: 17666
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 3642 of 3817 (867727)
12-02-2019 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 3640 by Thugpreacha
12-01-2019 4:16 PM


Re: Realize-Real Eyes- Real Lies
Phat writes:

I honestly think that conservatives believe that not everybody is gonna make it in the future. They know that in order for them to make it, some will have to be sacrificed, likely many. They see the handwriting on the wall economically.


So you foresee a class struggle.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 19086
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 3643 of 3817 (867736)
12-02-2019 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 3641 by marc9000
12-01-2019 4:30 PM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
marc9000 writes:

Faith and Marc: If you're not even going to make a pretense of trying to find the Democrat/news-media attacks and insults that you claim Trump is responding to (rather than initiating unprovoked) then I think you have to concede the point. Trump issues many, many gratuitous insults and attacks on an almost continuous basis user Twitter, his rallies, and speeches.

It would take a lot of effort to go back to 2015 and 2016,...

Maybe you misunderstood, because that wasn't the challenge. There's no need for you "to go back to 2015 and 2016."

You and Faith have repeatedly claimed that Trump's constant insults and attacks are responses to insults and attacks on him, so in Message 3273 I asked you to back that up by matching me one for one. You cite a *current* Democrat or mainstream news media attack or insult, and I'll cite a *current* Trump or Fox News attack or insult, and we'll see who runs out first. If you follow the chain of posts back you'll see that all the tweets and news reports I've cited were from the prior 24 hours or so.

So far you and Faith are losing 48 to 1, and you only got the 1 because you made reference to an old Ilhan Omar tweet.

With the news media, it's another story. Though they're quite powerful, they're not as powerful as the president. But they're not nearly as hated either.

You use the word "hated," and if we can equate that with approval ratings then you are wrong. Trump's approval rating is currently 41.7%, while the most recent figure I could find for the media is around 30% (Is trust in the media lower than trust in Congress?).

Trump blasts Newsweek over story on his Thanksgiving plans
...
Amazingly, Newsweek says they fired this reporter.

Yes, Newsweek did fire Jessica Kwong, which makes no sense. The story had to be filed Wednesday, and Kwong could only report on what the White House was making public at that time. The president's trip to Afghanistan was being kept secret for security reasons. Trump did tweet, and he did golf, just like the story said. The story said nothing about the highly confidential Afghanistan trip because no one knew about it. Even if Kwong somehow became aware of the trip she should have written nothing about it out of concern for the president's safety and security. Her firing is a mystery to me.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Grammar.


This message is a reply to:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 19086
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 3644 of 3817 (867806)
12-03-2019 1:56 PM


More Death, Poverty and Obesity in Republican States
In Opinion | America’s Red State Death Trip Paul Krugman writes about his analysis of longevity, wealth and health in Republican states. They're generally lower than in Democratic states. Why is this so?

Krugman's column is brief and undetailed, but here are the few reasons he mentioned:

  • Blue states expanded Medicaid.
  • Blue states reduced the number of people without health insurance.
  • Blue states had better education.
  • Red states had higher suicide rates.

--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 3645 by RAZD, posted 12-03-2019 5:17 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20327
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 3645 of 3817 (867828)
12-03-2019 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 3644 by Percy
12-03-2019 1:56 PM


Re: More Death, Poverty and Obesity in Republican States
In Opinion | America’s Red State Death Trip Paul Krugman writes about his analysis of longevity, wealth and health in Republican states. They're generally lower than in Democratic states. Why is this so?

He said that the longevity was generally the same in 1990, but now people living in a blue state can expect to live 4 years longer than in a red state:

quote:
(article you linked)I looked at states that voted for Donald Trump versus states that voted for Clinton in 2016, and calculated average life expectancy weighted by their 2016 population. In 1990, today’s red and blue states had almost the same life expectancy. Since then, however, life expectancy in Clinton states has risen more or less in line with other advanced countries, compared with almost no gain in Trump country. At this point, blue-state residents can expect to live more than four years longer than their red-state counterparts.

That's a pretty significant change.

Red states had higher suicide rates.

and other deaths of despair -- alcoholism and drug overdoses.

quote:
(article you linked) ... And even within America these evils are concentrated in states that voted for Trump, and have largely bypassed the more secular blue states. ...

and then there is obesity (ibid):

quote:
Is this all about deaths of despair in the eastern heartland? No. Consider our four most populous states. In 1990, Texas and Florida had higher life expectancy than New York and almost matched California; today, they’re far behind.

Beyond that, there has been a striking divergence in behavior and lifestyle that must be affecting mortality. For example, the prevalence of obesity has soared all across America since 1990, but obesity rates are significantly higher in red states.


Looks like they need some progressive policies ... or make true the claim that they would rather be dead than democrat.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel•American•Zen•Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

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 Message 3644 by Percy, posted 12-03-2019 1:56 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
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