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Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: When did Republicans learn to hate Democrats more than Russia? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
JonF Member (Idle past 189 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
But there aren't any such,
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JonF Member (Idle past 189 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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Don't bother unless you have facts.
Which you never do.
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JonF Member (Idle past 189 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
The Mueller report documented numerous cases of Russian interference.
BUT NO INVOLVEMENT BY THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN. You START with "questionable actions" looking for evidence of actual wrongdoing that can be criminally charged. THEY FOUND NOTHING TO CHARGE HIM WITH, WHICH IN OUR LEGAL SYSTEM MEANS HE WAS FOUND "NOT GUILTY." EXONERATED. WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE?
They found insufficient evidence to charge them. Which in our legal system means they are presumed innocent but in the real world everybody knows they are guilty, It especially DOES NOT mean anyone was found "not guilty".
IF OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE HAD BEEN FOUND THEY WOULD HAVE LISTED IT AS STARR LISTED CLINTON'S FELONIES, AS A CRIME HE COULD BE CHARGED WI6TH
The report did list his crtimes and pointed out that that the Congress is the place he should answer for them. Nancy Pelosi decided not to do so not because of any issues with the legal case but because public support for impeachment wasn't high enough for her.
are facts...
WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE? Edited by JonF, : No reason given.
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JonF Member (Idle past 189 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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It is a complete contradiction of American legal principles
No it isn't. Unless, of course, you can name a real legal principle and specify exactly how it was contradicted.
you have "insufficient evidence ...to charge" ANYTHING, that means you've found the defendant NOT GUILTY.
No it doesn't. Repeating unsupported claims is not an argument, but it's obviously all you have.
That is how our legal system works. We don't parse the evidence between "some" and "enough," if you have insufficient evidence that is as good as having none in the eyes of the law
Where is that found in law or legal precedent? If you can't answer you have no argument.
And the idea that you had SOME evidence that prevents you from clearing the defendant is a massive corruption of our legal system, something apparently made up only for Trump.
There is no evidence that prevented indicting Trump. There is an administrative opinion that has no force in law but bound Mueller as an employee of the Justice Department. That administrative decision was made in 1973 in response to Nixon's transgressions and had nothing to do with Trump.
There is NO evidence, NONE, it's all a fantasy they intend to push through anyway. .
The many hours of public and private testimony under oath are evidence. The publically known actions of the principals are evidence. The public statements of the principals are evidence. None of which you can address, so denying it exists is all you can do.
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JonF Member (Idle past 189 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
The Ukrainians DID interfere in the election for Hillary, it's not propaganda.
Some individuals did, with little effect.
Russia interefered also.
To an extent so great that the Ukrainian's attempts are not even in the same ballpark.
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JonF Member (Idle past 189 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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Unbelievable how you deny the obvious and demand evidence for the obvious, for historical fact. Unbelievable that we've sunk this low.
Translation:you have no support for your fantasy.
Oh "testimony" under oath" indeed. Sure, tons of hearsay two and three times removed, and evidence that actually supports the defense though it is denied.
Not Sondland's testimony. And the other witnesses together told a story that is consistent and fits the facts we know. Trump won't let any others testify. He knows what they would say. And the public statements by and actions of the principals. Especially Mulvaney and Trump. But I would love to see you support "evidence that actually supports the defense though it is denied" with citations and explanations. You won't even try. Edited by JonF, : No reason given.
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JonF Member (Idle past 189 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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Sondland clearly said Trump denied wanting a quid pro quo in so many words. So much for his evidence for impeachment.
Yes, Trump said that. Most guilty people say they are innocent. Sondland said :
Was there a quid pro quo?...The answer is yes. The rest is all hearsay. No matter how "consistent" it's all hearsay.
Which is allowed in this sort of proceeding.
And then there is the unidentified "whistleblower" whose identity we all know although they are protecting it despite the fact that it violates the principle that a defendant has the right to confront witnesses against him.
No, it doesn't. As I wrote in Message 3507, the right to confront accusers does not apply in non-criminal matters:
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JonF Member (Idle past 189 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Logical deductions are not worse than hearsay.
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JonF Member (Idle past 189 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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Unfortunately I don't know the true story in order to answer you but I do know that Obama gave them NO aid whatever.
Wrong as usual. Fact-checking Trump's claim that Obama gave Ukraine "pillows and sheets" | CNN Politics
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JonF Member (Idle past 189 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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Right-wingers have said many times that Obama gave nothing to Ukraine, in the sense that nothing was authorized.
I haven't heard of anyone saying he withheld aid that had been authorized. I bet you made that part up.
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