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Author | Topic: Testing The Christian Apologists | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7
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Weird that your response contained nothing about socialism. Just weir end of times references.
How about you quit making references to and condemning socialism into you understand what it is. Also, there are no major politicians advocating that the US become a socialist state. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Social Security.
Medicaid. Medicare. Public Highways. Municipal Police and Fire Departments. Pension Funds. Public Schools. Public Libraries. Bridges. Municipal Water Systems. Street Lights. State Colleges. The Internet.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
I keep asking you: If you're getting some kind of "special communication" from Jesus, why doesn't it manifest as the fruits of the Spirit (love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance)?
because many of us believe that Jesus speaks through the scriptures, teaching you as you study. Phat writes:
Creationists - particularly the young, uneducated ones - call that "thinking outside the box". My standard response is: You shouldn't try to think outside the box until you understand the box. You should be trying to understand the text before you swallow any "fresh" outside-the-box "interpretations" (fairy tales) from apologists.
There has been many a Bible study where we read passages we have read before and get a fresh interpretation. Phat writes:
So did the messenger.
I knew that you valued socialism more than the messenger. Phat writes:
On the contrary, socialism is our only hope.
Your socialism will break down along with the rest of the world systems when the fossil fuels run out and the oceans rise. Phat writes:
Wake up! You're dreaming. Christianity is already struggling. It will go the way of Zeus.
Watch Christianity take off and grow exponentially. Phat writes:
We already have you and Faith. Then you really will have a lot of nuts and false prophets to deal with, as will we."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It's "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need". Contribute what you can, get what you need. It's exactly what Jesus taught.
From what I understand, its basically collective ownership. Nothing is privately owned. Phat writes:
Ironic choice of words. Some areas of life remain sacred."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
That's just hypocrisy.
In our own country we have the province that espouses secular humanism, (the BQ leader promoted the ides that the province is secular and gained the most seats), is the province that wants to limit immigration and bans religious symbols. GDR writes:
That's mostly because they have the organization. In contrast it is churches across the country that have been most active in sponsoring refugee families both financially and with the help they need to settle here."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: Apparently, Ananias and Saphira did not have the ability to let go of literally everything they owned. Many in today's world would have the same issue. Shall they all simply be struck dead for not surrendering everything to..wait for it..not Jesus or His Apostles but to a secular government ran by fallible humans? If that is the conclusion, I'm giving what I can, holding on to what I need, and may God strike me dead if I'm wrong. It's "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need". Contribute what you can, get what you need. It's exactly what Jesus taught.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction . "~Thugpreacha You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Nobody has said anything about surrendering everything to government. Shall they all simply be struck dead for not surrendering everything to..wait for it..not Jesus or His Apostles but to a secular government ran by fallible humans?"If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
You seem to still have no grasp of the concept of socialism or democratic socialism. Are the same people feeding you your religious crap the ones feeding your utter lack of knowledge of socialism?
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: On this one, I am quite sure you will be proven wrong. Times will get tougher. People will organize into collectives to survive. Some collectives will be secular and some "spiritual". Within the spiritual groups will be both fake and real Christians. You will know them by their fruits and by their politics. Christianity is already struggling. It will go the way of Zeus.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction . "~Thugpreacha You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That happens all the time. The Roman Empire collapsed and Jupiter/Zeus is now forgotten.
Times will get tougher. Phat writes:
We're already organized into collectives. They're called "nations".
People will organize into collectives to survive. Phat writes:
We already have that too. We can tell the "fake Christians" by their all-caps posts. Within the spiritual groups will be both fake and real Christians. You will know them by their fruits and by their politics."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
You are conflating two issues. One is what Jesus would have us do...that one im arguing with ringo exclusively. The other is your charge that I dont understand democratic socialism. I may be guilty of that one, but I can google with the best of them. As I have stated before, I am in favor of a moderate government. Let me keep control over some of my stuff. I'm not afraid to pay taxes, but I am afraid of any sort of collective responsibility which puts me on the hook of taking care of all of the poor impoverished masses globally. To whom much is given, much is required. The US middle class is shrinking precisely because the rest of the world is now interconnected and we were wealthier relative to them so now we are losing more percentage-wise as they escape poverty.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction . "~Thugpreacha You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
Then quit claiming that socialism has something to do with giving all your stuff to the government.
You are conflating two issues No I am not. I am pointing out your continual misrepresentation of socialism. You do it repeatedly and knowingly.
but I can google with the best of them
Obviously either you can not or you are too damn lazy. Because you either have not or don't understand what you read.
The US middle class is shrinking precisely because the rest of the world is now interconnected and we were wealthier relative to them so now we are losing more percentage-wise as they escape poverty.
No. We are losing out because the billionaire class is hoarding all the money. 1000 dollars would change the life of most people in third world countries, dont you agree? If you gave 45 million people 1000 dollars of Bill Gates money. He would still have over 45 billion left. Tell me again how the poor people getting a better life is causing you economic pain.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Tell me again how the poor people getting a better life is causing you economic pain. It seems pretty simple to me. The rich have manipulated the system so that they keep their money and leave the responsibility of helping the poor on the middle class. My point is that socialism will never be implemented as long as the wealthy keep their power. But when I point this out to ringo, he seems to suggest that if the "cushy" middle class sacrificed more, the poor would be better off and it would be no big deal for the middle to get knocked down a rung or two. I disagree. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction . "~Thugpreacha You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I don't necessarily advocate "implementing socialism". I advocate being a decent human being, which is also what Jesus advocated. Do what needs doing even if it means giving up that second ivory back-scratcher. My point is that socialism will never be implemented as long as the wealthy keep their power. But when I point this out to ringo, he seems to suggest that if the "cushy" middle class sacrificed more, the poor would be better off and it would be no big deal for the middle to get knocked down a rung or two. But what you're missing is that pulling up the poor benefits everybody. The poor get richer and pay more taxes, which reduces your tax burden."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
OK, that's a decent argument. I likely misunderstand socialism because I see it in the microcosm of union politics. If too many new people get hired, the union benefits because of more union dues, the company benefits because of cheaper labor, but the senior union members then have to share their hours and end up taking home less.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction . "~Thugpreacha You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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