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Member (Idle past 1425 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: When did Republicans learn to hate Democrats more than Russia? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
MAY ALL THE TRUTH COME OUT. Oh, it will all come out! After all Trump's frantic attempts to obstruct the investigations have been thwarted. Which in reality are his legitimate reactions to being endlessly harassed and falsely accused for political reasons since before he took office. I suppose they may very well thwart his legitimate attempts to act as a President is supposed to act with a foreign leader, by redefining it as criminal, and thwart his attempts to defend himself against this witch hunt in his own way. But I'm glad to see the House Republicans rising to the task of bringing out the truth, in some cases even rather heroically. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5946 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5
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They dint lie, if Donny does not get reelected he will be indicted. Not only do I agree, but I think that that is one of the primary reasons why Trump is so desperate to be re-elected. The extra money he's getting by laundering campaign contributions is only secondary (ignoring his golfing and hotel emoluments and whatever streams of foreign income he's keeping hidden). I'm sure I've seen this comment that I have arrived at (don't remember where), but Trump becoming President was perhaps the single shtupidest mistake that he has ever made in his entire life. All his life, he's been a small-bananas crook who didn't draw enough interest from the authorities for them to bother to go after him. Now that he's hit the big time and has caused enormous damage to many people, he is drawing a lot of interest from everyone around him. His standard defense had been to bury his critics and opponents under tons of litigation (eg, subcontractors that he refused to pay and other of his victims). That had always worked for him before because nobody who went up against him had pockets deep enough to spend the enormous amount of money needed and to survive the years of legal wrangling that it would take -- if Trump had cheated you out of $100,000, then it wouldn't be worthwhile for you to spend $1,000,000 in order to collect that $100,000, so you would settle out of court for a much smaller figure. Now it's the government that will be going after him and the government has very deep pockets and can slug out a legal battle for many years. Trump will find himself grossly outmatched this time. I don't think that Trump ever expected to win that election (nor am I alone, though I can cite no sources). There was an account of Trump's party watching the returns on election night in which Trump just sat there in shock, Melania started crying angrily, Pence tried to approach his wife who rebuffed him sternly (¿angrily?) saying "You got what you wanted!" I remember how, leading up to the final days before the election, Trump was starting to spread the narrative that the election was fixed. Since he was anticipating losing, he was trying to set up the next big publicity show. I think that we can see him trying or planning to resort to that trick again for 2020. During the 2016 campaign, a radio commentator's comment drew my attention to part of Trump's scams, one which becomes increasingly evident as you examine it. The Trump Campaign offices were housed in Trump properties, serviced by Trump services, fed by Trump catering, etc. Virtually all the campaign expenses paid by the Trump Campaign was paid to Trump's own businesses, and therefore to Trump. In addition, investigative reporters tracked down various Trump properties getting money for campaign operations and found that the offices in those properties were empty and had been for a long time (according to local people living and working there). So then I was not very surprised when Trump registered for running for re-election as soon as possible. What that did for him was to allow him to keep his campaign operations "cash cow" alive and giving for as long as possible. Then there's Trump's Presidential transition. That is described in the Guardian's article, 'This guy doesn’t know anything': the inside story of Trump’s shambolic transition team by Michael Lewis (author of Moneyball and The Big Short), 2018 Sep 27. The primary source for that article was Chris Christie who had joined the Trump team and who tried to run the transition. It's a hoot of a read with a lot of insider observations of the early stages of this train wreck. IOW, read it. One of the things we walk away from that article with is that Trump had absolutely no concept of what must be handled in a presidential transition, such that he thought you could hash it all out in a couple hours. The other major thing was Trump's attitude towards the money allocated to the transition and his reaction to that money being spent. Read the article. Barring that, after a paragraph describing Christie's transition work:
quote: So then, Trump's driving attitude has been that all money streaming in is his by right. All that he sees is various streams of revenue for him personally. All his golfing trips always to his own golf resorts, never ever to any competitors' (as would be required according to considerations of conflict of interest) nor any neutral party's (eg, the many golf courses on military bases which is where Obama had gone golfing with absolutely no personal benefit to himself, unlike Trump)! And then of course there's Trump awarding the contract for the next G-7 Summit to his own property of Doral. He immediately withdrew that award in face of the reaction of everybody who is even remotely sane, though he still grouses about it. What he did is the most characteristic definition of corruption, which is directing public contracts (AKA "money") to your own pocket because of the office that you hold. Secondary example is Trump's superfluous "golf trips". It seemed that every single time Obama went golfing, the Fake News Network would become apoplectic about it, yet in just two years Trump's own time on the courses has exceeded all eight (8) years of Obama's own golfing. Let us also note that Obama's own golfing never benefited him financially. He would go to a local military golf course (I am not a golfer, far from it, but I have noticed that a number of military bases, even reserve bases, have golf courses). A side benefit of that would be that all it took to get Obama and his retinue to the golf course and back was a simple motorcade.
Now Trump! He will only allow his golf trips to be to his own properties (id est, corruption up the ying-yang! ). He has to transport all his retinue and all their equipment to his own private property in Florida (Mar-A-Lago, usually but not always) -- at government expense. All his retinue, every single troop, has to be quartered and fed and all that has to be paid for. The resort bills the government and the government pays the bill. And after all the expenses, the remaining profit still flows into Trump's own pocket. And the only reason why Trump is making a profit from his golf trips is because he uses his office to select his own resorts for his golf trips. Classic and inescapable corruption. When Trump is finally removed from office such that the corrupted DOJ can no longer protect him from indictment, he is, as per the standard Chinese curse about living in interesting times, going to have some very interesting times as he faces one indictment after another. Personally, I feel that there are many sealed indictments out there, indictments based on much evidence, but which cannot be presented until certain conditions are met. The first obvious one is the case of Stormy Daniels in which Trump was named as the "unindicted co-conspirator". OK, you cannot indict a sitting president, but can't you still indict him in a sealed indictment that can then be released later under certain circumstances? Trump is desperate to use any and all tricks for protection against answering for his actions. His only hope of accomplishing that is to remain immune from answering for his actions. The only way he can maintain that is by being reelected. That is the primary reason why Trump absolutely needs to be reelected.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5946 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5
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Hey. Trump could have provided all the information he could want in order to show that there's nothing at all wrong with what he's been doing. Yet he not only refuses to do so, but he is going to very extremely legalistic extremes to avoid doing so. Gee, why would that be?
That information exonerating Trump has been asked for, repeatedly, and has been withheld because of ... Trump. So why would he ever block evidence that would exonerate him? Because all evidence condemns him? In order to show that he is innocent, Trump needs to be completely open and transparent, including showing his taxes and all other financials. Instead, he is completely closed and opaque about his finances. Which means that he is showing that he is guilty.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
He IS completely open and transparent. Nothing you are saying about his supposedly hiding things is true. He's all out there. His taxes have nothing to do with the impeachment, they are his own business. Why are they needed? Because the evidence they have to impeach him on is a big zero so they think they'll find something in his taxes. What they'll find is small things they don't understand they can twist into something criminal, just the way they've been inventing this whole witchhunt from the beginning. He's hiding nothing, he's obstructing nothing. But the Constitution is being twisted and distorted, the laws are being twisted and distorted, opinion is being accepted as evidence, "witnesses" are giving only hearsay and opinion, or mere "presumption" in the case of Sondwhatshisname, the whistleblower isn't qualified to be a whistleblower and he's a Democrat who hates Trump and hasw worked for Biden and Schiff was advising him although he claims not even to know who he is. Protesting his identity is an egregious violation of the principle of allowing the accused to confront his accuser. All sorts of principles of this sort, due process, are denied this President. Nothing Trump says is taken for true. He says he doesn't want a quid pro quo and he is accused of lying about that. There is nothing the man can do to defend himself, the cards are stacked against him, this is political corruption, denial of justice, to an unprecedented degree, and apparently the distortions are so deep and embedded nobody on your side can see them.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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frako Member (Idle past 326 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined:
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They sent aid for military defense against Russia to Ukraine No bipartisan congress gave the aid, trump held up the aid for months about 70 Ukrainians died in the mean time, then the wistleblower report came out and trump immediately released the aid. Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Unfortunatly I don't know the true story in order to answer you but I do know that Obama gave them NO aid whatever.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1425 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
... If you have "insufficient evidence ...to charge" ANYTHING, that means you've found the defendant NOT GUILTY. That is how our legal system works. ... So Al Capone was innocent until he was charged with tax evasion. No murders or mob hustling at all, just a mistake on his tax form. Fascinating.by our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1425 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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... The Ukrainians DID interfere in the election for Hillary, it's not propaganda. ... It is Russian propaganda, every intelligence organization in the free world agrees that it is Russian propaganda and that there was NO interference in the election from Ukraine. Brits, French, Australian, etc concur. Also we now have the useful conclusion from AG Barrs little waste of time investigation into the FBI, contacting foreign intelligence and going through our own intelligence service, that there was no plot on the FBI to investigate Trump, just his paranoia. That same paranoia that leads him to think that an individual saying an individual opinion of Trump during the election that he was a lousy candidate means that the whole of Ukraine was plotting to undermine his campaign. Of course it had nothing to do with Trump saying that the Crimea should belong to Russia instead of Ukraine like the rest of the world thought. There is no cloudstrike either. That's a #rightwingnutjob conspiracy fantasy.
Russia interefered also. As in also Saudi Arabia, and China, more of Trumps friends in high places. Because it's okay if they do it on his behalf but an evil plot if it's against him. Enjoy by our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9140 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
I guess he couldn't stand having his rank dishonesty called out time and time again.
As my one signature says, quote: This forum is a fantastic venue to learn and push your individual belief sets. I know that I am forced to defend my beliefs quite often and my beliefs have been changed. That change comes from opening your mind not closing it.Hopefully, Hyro finds his place with the alt righters whose beliefs he embraces. Edited by Admin, : Rerender after clearing disallowed words list.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9140 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
That is not true.
Here are some actual facts. Not right wing fever dreams. Do you care to contest these facts? quote:Fact-checking Trump's claim that Obama gave Ukraine "pillows and sheets" | CNN Politics Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1425 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Besides admitting that Trump had clearly said he did not want a quid pro quo, all he wanted was for Zelensky to do the right thing, SONDLAND ALSO SAID HE "PRESUMED" IT, HE DID NOT KNOW IT, HE DIDN'T EVEN HEAR IT, HE "PRESUMED" IT. This is worse than hearsay, he made it up entirely in his own head and admitted it under interrogation. Again, not completely true. After the overheard phone call from Sondland to Trump he told the aide that Trump was only interested in "the big things" ... the aide asked if that meant the Ukraine because a lot of big things were happening there with the war, and Sondland said "No, big things like the Biden investigation" ... Here's from Fox2now (no liberal bias):
quote: What Holmes heard from Trump and from Sondland is evidence. This is also covered by this youtube excerpt of just the Democrat Counsel's questioning of Sondland, specifically starting at t=9m
at 16:30 he describes it as quid pro quo. Note that Sondland was not allowed to reference his emails and phone logs by the Secretary of State, so he is going solely on his memory and the evidence from others. Enjoyby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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JonF Member (Idle past 188 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Logical deductions are not worse than hearsay.
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JonF Member (Idle past 188 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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Unfortunately I don't know the true story in order to answer you but I do know that Obama gave them NO aid whatever.
Wrong as usual. Fact-checking Trump's claim that Obama gave Ukraine "pillows and sheets" | CNN Politics
quote:
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1425 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Logical deductions are not worse than hearsay. We KNOW there is a link from Trump to Giulliani from a number of sources, including his written statement in the phone call letter. We know that he told others to "talk to Rudy" when the subject of releasing the aid came up. Including Sondland and Taylor and Zelenski. We KNOW that Rudy told Sondland that both the white house meeting and aid release were predicated on public announcement by Zelenski to initiate an investigation into Biden and 2016 interference, ie - "the deliverables" We KNOW that the claim that it was pending an investigation into corruption is bogus because:
When you have two entirely different, contradictory "excuses" for holding the aid and then having the aid suddenly released without ceremony and without either "excuse" being met before the aid was suddenly released with no explanation other than the House had initiated a hearing on the matter and that Trumpty was caught with his tiny hand in the cookie jar ... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to connect the dots. It's what's called Circumstantial Evidence, rather than second hand anecdotal evidence (as republicans keep trying to say)
quote: The multiple attempts by Trump to block investigations into Russian interference cited in the Mueller report and his directive to State Department Officials and White House aides to ignore lawful subpoenas are also circumstantial evidence of his guilt. It's called cover-up, and cover-up is what got Nixon impeached. We have means, motive and opportunity. We also KNOW that no White House meeting was held either (just an aside during a meeting at the UN that both attended). ‘No Pressure,’ Trump Insists, While Sitting With Ukraine’s Zelensky at U.N. – Rolling Stone We also KNOW that a scheduled interview between Zelenski and CNN was cancelled by Zelenski after the news of the House investigation broke. Zelensky Was Set To Announce Biden Probe On CNN, Then Congress Pressed For Aid: Report | HuffPost Latest News CNN host Fareed Zakaria was set to interview Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky until scandal took shape | CNN Politics
quote: So we know that both "deliverables" had been set up, but they ended when the news of the House investigation broke. Now Dems could ask those Ukraine aides to testify if they wanted more evidence. Presumably they would also link Rudy in the plot. Curiously, I have no problem with stepping back a bit and getting some subpoenas tested in court and getting some Ukrainians to testify, and not just Parnas ... Lev Parnas Helped Rep. Devin Nunes’ Investigations Get both sides of the story. And it would be interesting to get Nunes to testify under oath about his "investigation" that he tried to push onto Dr Fiona Hill. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : . Edited by RAZD, : .. Edited by RAZD, : ...by our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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frako Member (Idle past 326 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
Here is the timeline, and Obama did give aid to Ukraine. Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
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