Christianity is Morally Bankrupt

Clarity isn't something you are familiar with.The quote I used says that we don't have the knowledge. So why couldn't God create Eden and the rest of the universe in the same way?

According to Romans 1, He does. For any believer, I would assume that He is istening. Whether or not he responds is another matter. He certainly does not have to respond. Sometimes no answer is the answer. For that moment, anyway.
I have been watching this side conversation between Faith and Taq with growing interest. Taq is pressing for an answer from Faith, and I can empathize with her position. She searches in her memory banks for a proper theological answer, as do I, but ends up making up an answer as I also will end up doing, because quite frankly at the end of the day belief is still a belief. If I look back, Taqs basic question was similar to Tangles basic question: Why did it (the story) have to have a God who created evil initially and thus why did humans have to suffer and die and get tortured and experience extreme pain in life all for the eventual purpose of *some* ending up in Heaven, having endured this whole trial by fire scenario. (Does that sound right, Taq?) So the argument goes, an all-powerful and loving God *could* have hypothetically skipped that whole developmental step with the human creation and simply created more free-willed beings to populate Heaven. (or Eden, take your pick)It actually is a fascinating question and not one easily answered. But I think there are a few clues in the literature (which is, after all, the only source of our knowledge of historical belief regarding the God of popular Christian apologetics (the One who has a Son, Jesus Christ, and believers by extension)

First, we read that there was a war in Heaven. The idea that a war could even begin in a place such as Heaven shows clearly that free will was involved.
Wikipedia-War In Heaven

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The Wiki article seems well written and quite fair and balanced. So to answer Taqs question, yes there will be free will in Heaven. Just as the Angelic Beings were free to challenge God, so shall anyone else be free to challenge God. Only the proud ones try, however, and we saw what happened in that first war.

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It seems to me if I accept the plausibility of the stories, that the human-animal was created free and innocent, was initially exposed to the rebels, disobeyed God, became aware of what true free will is (as an ongoing evolutionary trait)
and is now in the phase of denying obedience to any supreme being or evil entity, preferring to develop among ourselves and grow to our best potential or die trying.

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And Taq, you know jar and ringos basic position, yes? That God told our ancestors that if we disobeyed we would die while the cunning serpent told us that we would do fine with our new knowledge of good and evil. Which they claim is the truth. So the answer is_______________________________ from this day forward?
A) Choose to critically examine any and all beliefs and strive to be a good human.
B) Believe that Jesus is good and eternal, confess your own sin and imperfection to Him, and ask Him to fill you with His communion presence.
C) Hope that no talking snakes appear in your future.

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Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

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You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

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As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

That's pretty much it.Adding to the story, if life does begin and conception at which point a soul is enshrined in that embryo, then what happens if the embryo dies before being born? Anywhere from 25 to 50% of pregnancies naturally terminate in the first month, so that's a lot of babies who die before being born. Is heaven going to be filled to the brim with people who never made it more than 1 month past conception? Are they left in limbo, or are they sent to Hell? Why even have the two trees in Eden to begin with, or create Adam and Eve with the ability to disobey? Faith is saying that when we are in heaven we can't disobey God, so why wouldn't that also be the case on Earth?

Let's think critically.
The book was either totally written and imagined by humans struggling to understand the concept of God.
or
It was divinely inspired and the humans wrote down the spark to their limited intelligence at that time, in line with their culture.If the former, then the story, explains itself as a human-inspired myth.If the latter, we are then faced with questioning why it was in the "Divine Book" to begin with. Perhaps two trees symbolize a metaphor between eternal life and eternal death. If so, knowledge without communion is death (eventual or otherwise) ringo always dislikes the apologetic reference to spiritual death, which I commonly find while browsing. All we know is that tree#2(the second pick) was off-limits to those who picked tree #`1. Perhaps Tree#1 would hypothetically be off-limits had Eve chosen Tree#2. Christian believers tend to take these things seriously literal, so just by interpreting possibilities I am being a rebel. But that's just me,.

A War in heaven. That's hilarious. So heaven is, in fact, just a mirror image of earth and god is just a lessor immortal.You guys, you'll believe absolutely anything.

I think it's the other way around: in many ways earth isa mirror of heaven. The war in the heavenlies is between the good angels and the fallen angels, God's angels and Satan's angels. Ultimately our wars have the same basic conflict between good and evil. This is clear in the Second World War at least.

And, of course, it's never crossed your mind these are obviously just allegoric, man-made stories?

Of course it's "crossed my mind" and been rejected as false.

It's a joke Faith, a child could see through it.

Sure, all the fairy tales are distorted reflections of the heavenly truths. Again you have it the wrong way around.

No wonder Trump loves you guys, you're incredibly gullible.

No, that is not my position. I have not said anything about "doing fine". All I have said is that Adam and Eve did not die that day. And they didn't. They had long and productive lives, which is all that any of us can hope for. It is. The snake told the truth. You have not been able to show any apologetics that can turn the truth upside down.

False dichotomy. "The Book" is actually 66 books (and that's only in our preferred canon). Some of the books might be entirely made up and some might be dictated word for word by God. And some might be a mixture of both. Because the story doesn't say anything about "spiritual death". And the story ends with God preventing Adam and Eve from obtaining eternal life, so the context of the story is clearly about physical death. I'm still waiting for you to bring the apologetic arguments here. As long as you avoid doing that, it seems like there is no real argument - i.e. the conclusion is all made up.

Sorry to be slow getting back to you. Life gets in the way. Of course not. I had made the point earlier that mutations result in things like cancer and tsunamis are the result of living in a world subject to entropy and decay. But I don't. I am saying that an empathetic intelligence is responsible for evolution. Do you really think that intelligence, let alone empathy, is more easily evolved from mindless particles and then chemicals by chance than from intelligence? I can't muster up the faith to believe that. Also what is infinite power mean anyway. Sure the intelligence required to bring about life as we know would seem somewhat infinite to us but that doesn't mean that there aren't limitations.We can really only speculate why God caused life to be the way that it is, but it does seem likely IMHO, that the goal was to create empathetic beings who live lives characterized by sacrificial love of others. Some how this characteristic will be the norm in a renewed creation. Fair enough. I had never considered the question previously so my thinking did evolve as the discussion went along. For now I'll stick with tyhe answer you quoted.

OK here is one by Catholic Apologist Peter Kreeft: Comments?