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Author | Topic: Police Shootings | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hyroglyphx writes:
So you're trading one mass shooting for dozens of wrongful individual shootings by police. How does the body count balance? An event such as this is precisely why American law enforcement is armed and it is only because they were armed and ran towards the gunfire instead of away from it that the numbers were thankfully mitigated."Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hyroglyphx writes:
Seriously? If there was one more death by unjustified cop-shooting than the number of deaths prevented by cops, you'd agree with disarming cops? The same way you would for anything else... by analyzing on a case by case basis and tally up the amount of justified shootings with unjustified shootings."Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hyroglyphx writes:
So that busts the myth that most gun-owners are law-abiding. You could outlaw all guns tomorrow afternoon and offer this gun buy-back program, and you wouldn't even get rid of a fourth of the guns in the population."Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hyroglyphx writes:
What has that got to do with what you said? Cocaine was once legal... it was legally placed into products. Once it became illegal, they had to stop using it as an additive. You said, "You could outlaw all guns tomorrow afternoon and offer this gun buy-back program, and you wouldn't even get rid of a fourth of the guns in the population." Doesn't that imply that gun owners would not give up their guns? That they would keep them illegally?"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Thugpreacha writes:
That's what I said: The so-called "law-abiding" gun owners might not be so law-abiding if they didn't like the laws. I think he means that there would always be a market...legally or illegally and that legislation alone wont stop the spread of or existence of guns."Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Hyroglyphx writes:
No, I'm predicting what will happen if you let go of the horse.
You're placing the cart before the horse. Hyroglyphx writes:
So it's a basic disrespect for government and the rule of law.
They won't care and they will view it as usurpation by a government inching towards tyranny. Hyroglyphx writes:
As I've always said, when guns are outlawed, it'll be easier to spot the outlaws. So, sure, I guess they'll be illegal... and it won't stop them because they'll view it in righteous terms."Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hyroglyphx writes:
I find it odd that so many Americans don't like "government interference" in their lives but at the same time they're in favor of giving more power to the police. So instead of increasing police proficiency you'd rather police just be useless."Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hyroglyphx writes:
That's obviously nonsense. Police in Britain don't have guns. Police without guns is like firefighters without houses. It just doesn't make any sense."Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hyroglyphx writes:
"Outside the norm" is irrelevant. The fact is it can be done. There's like 5 countries that doesn't have an armed police force, making GB way outside the norm. Edited by ringo, : Added quote."Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns" -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Hyroglyphx writes:
What a stupid thing to say. Pacifism isn't the abrogation of violence... pacifism IS violence.Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing. -- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Percy writes:
I think you're weakening your case by nitpicking about an example where the shooting was clearly justifiable. At least in this country, police are almost never prosecuted when they kill someone. That fact is why this thread exists."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Percy writes:
To be clear, my stance is pretty simple: Where there is a clear and present danger, shoot to kill. A man with a suicide vest is a clear and present danger, period. There's been no diminishment in the number of situations where the public believes police were justified in using lethal force."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Percy writes:
There's no point in speculating about what they were thinking. Did the police think he was wearing a suicide vest at the time they killed him?"If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Percy writes:
Saying "it is possible" is speculating.
I was trying to remind you of a point I had made in earlier posts, that it is possible, since there's a news report that police shot the suspect in the chest and abdomen, that they did not think he was wearing a suicide vest. Percy writes:
But they didn't know it was a fake until after they subdued him. I agree with you that a man with an actual for real suicide vest represents a grave danger, but whatever the suspect was wearing was not a vest (it could have been a belt) and was fake anyway."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Percy writes:
What they "knew" is the same as what they were thinking.
You said there was no point in speculating about what they were thinking, but their thinking isn't what I was speculating about. I was speculating about what they knew. Percy writes:
That's exactly the point. They didn't know the bomb was a fake until they subdued him. They subdued him by killing him. If after subduing him they knew it was fake, why did they kill an unarmed man?"If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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