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Author Topic:   Christianity is Morally Bankrupt
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 581 of 652 (868274)
12-09-2019 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 580 by Tangle
12-09-2019 6:03 PM


Re: Our conscience
Here is a quote that covers basically the whole report.
quote:
"The predominant notion had been that they are callous individuals, unable to feel emotions themselves and therefore unable to feel emotions in others.
"Our work shows it's not that simple. They don't lack empathy but they have a switch to turn it on and off. By default, it seems to be off."
The fact that they have the capacity to switch empathy on, at least under certain conditions, could have a positive side to it, Prof Keysers said.
"The notion psychopaths have no empathy at all was a bleak prospect. It would make it very hard for them to have normal moral development.
"Now that we've shown they have empathy - even if only in certain conditions - we can give therapists something to work with," Prof Keysers told BBC News.
That empathetic meme is there, but they don't respond to in the same way the others do.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 580 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2019 6:03 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 584 by Tangle, posted 12-10-2019 4:27 AM GDR has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 582 of 652 (868275)
12-09-2019 7:07 PM
Reply to: Message 578 by Tangle
12-09-2019 3:47 PM


Re: Our conscience
Tangle writes:
Just so long as you realize that that term only convinces you.
Which of course also holds true for your beliefs.
Tangle writes:
You heard that 'a psychopath’ liked a pet? That's evidence of what exactly?
That a psychopath has emotions like caring for and about another creature, however I agree that evidence isn't conclusive but they must have some feeling in regards to their pet.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 578 by Tangle, posted 12-09-2019 3:47 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 583 by Tangle, posted 12-10-2019 4:09 AM GDR has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 586 of 652 (868333)
12-10-2019 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 583 by Tangle
12-10-2019 4:09 AM


Re: Our conscience
Tangle writes:
I don't have any beliefs.
Do you believe that there is no god?

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 583 by Tangle, posted 12-10-2019 4:09 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 589 by Theodoric, posted 12-10-2019 9:52 PM GDR has not replied
 Message 590 by Tangle, posted 12-11-2019 3:29 AM GDR has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 587 of 652 (868335)
12-10-2019 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 584 by Tangle
12-10-2019 4:27 AM


Re: Our conscience
Tangle writes:
That quote does not cover the whole report. It covers the bit that you think supports your view but it doesn't do that either. What it's saying is that in the people they've tested they've found brain activity that equates to empathy when certain activities that the experimenter does switch it on.
In normal conditions the psychopathic brain does not show that activity. In your language that means that the psychopath does not hear the 'still small voice of god' because the switch is set to off.
OK. Here is a quote from the quote.
quote:
"Our work shows it's not that simple. They don't lack empathy but they have a switch to turn it on and off. By default, it seems to be off."
The fact that they have the capacity to switch empathy on, at least under certain conditions, could have a positive side to it, Prof Keysers said.
The point is that "they don't lack empathy". They do have that "still small voice" but it is by default switched off except that "under certain conditions", THEY have a switch to turn it on.
Another quote:
quote:
"Now that we've shown they have empathy - even if only in certain conditions - we can give therapists something to work with," Prof Keysers told BBC News.
Brain activation in criminals with psychopathy was greater when asked to empathise (foreground)
But he explained that it was not yet known how this wilful capacity for empathy could be transformed into the spontaneous empathy most of us have.
Yes, the experimenters were able to bring about the conditions but those conditions were also something they could encounter without the experimenters.
In your quote they even say that "even though they CAN empathise doesn't mean they will". I tend to think that you don't have to be a psychopath for that to be true.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 584 by Tangle, posted 12-10-2019 4:27 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 591 by Tangle, posted 12-11-2019 3:50 AM GDR has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 588 of 652 (868337)
12-10-2019 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 585 by Percy
12-10-2019 8:53 AM


Re: Our conscience
Percy writes:
Of what use is belief? To be useful an idea must be supported by evidence, and it's even better if the evidence is consistent with the rest of the fabric of evidence, fitting into an accepted framework of understanding.
To address the specifics of your comment, if there is no evidence related to the roots of our existence, then anything we think about it is mere belief. But there *is* evidence. Nothing conclusive at this point, but evidence nonetheless.
What evidence are you referring to? It is easy to say that there is evidence without naming it.
I would say there is evidence as well. The fact is we exist with sentience, emotions and even a sense of morality. We can look at the evolutionary process and see how it is that we are the way we are physically. We can even look at Dawkin's meme hypothesis and can see that we are influenced by the cultural replicators that we encounter.
Just because we can discern natural processes at work does not mean that we can discern the underlying intelligence, or lack of intelligence, behind those processes. As I said here multiple times, I contend that the belief that there exist multiple complex natural processes, driven by chance, resulting in even a single cell stretches credibility beyond its limits.
Percy writes:
Paley's place in history is due to his Watchmaker analogy - Wikipedia. He did go on to draw an analogy with the eye, but your automobile assembly plant example is just Paley's watch analogy.
Turns out you are at least partly correct. Here is from your link.
quote:
Others, however, consider the watchmaker analogy to be compatible with evolutionary creation, opining that the two concepts are not mutually exclusive.
I had always taken the view of those who saw Paley as making an argument against evolution but apparently it can also be compatible with evolutionary creation.
Percy writes:
I can't tell if you're talking about evolution or the origin of life.
Both
Percy writes:
We already know it's turtles all the way down.
...of course that holds true both ways. It is either a regression of God or a regression of processes. At least with theism we have an answer which of course is that God's dimension/universe is not subject to just one dimension of time.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 585 by Percy, posted 12-10-2019 8:53 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 595 by Percy, posted 12-11-2019 11:47 AM GDR has not replied

  
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