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Author Topic:   Brexit - Should they stay or should they go?
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 627 of 887 (853349)
05-26-2019 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 626 by AZPaul3
05-26-2019 2:48 PM


Re: Understanding Brexit
It's the party that can form a majority in Parliament that sends someone to Queenie to ask to form a government. The 'someone' is elected by the party, not Parliament. Parliament has no vote on who gets to be PM.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 626 by AZPaul3, posted 05-26-2019 2:48 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 628 by AZPaul3, posted 05-26-2019 4:14 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 632 of 887 (853362)
05-26-2019 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 628 by AZPaul3
05-26-2019 4:14 PM


Re: Understanding Brexit
AZP writes:
I'm missing something.
All you're missing is the fact that the conservatives are a minority government unable to do anything without the consent of other parties and that internally both the conservatives and the main opposition are divided on Brexit so nothing can be done. Changing the leader changes nothing. We don't have the Presidential system here.
It's the bugger's muggle at work.
As we type, the elections for Europe are being announced. It's astonishing. Both main parties are totally trashed.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 628 by AZPaul3, posted 05-26-2019 4:14 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 640 of 887 (853428)
05-27-2019 12:18 PM


Hilariously - in this tragicomedy - neither Tory nor Labour now want an election; they're terrified of the outcome.
So a no confidence vote is being pushed away a bit by both sides.
The remaining option then is referendum (if the other two possibilities are ruled out - hard exit and May's deal.)
It's all getting much worse, our democracy is properly broken by this stupid first past the post voting system.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 642 of 887 (853505)
05-28-2019 8:23 AM


I've just been reminded that the EU might just kick us out on the 31st October regardless of what we say or don't say. They don't have to do a deal and unless we revoke Article 50 before then, we're out automatically.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 649 of 887 (854842)
06-13-2019 2:42 PM


God 'elp us

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 666 of 887 (855591)
06-20-2019 4:49 PM


The conservative party are shitting themselves over Farage - yet again. So yet again they're going to do something totally fuckwitted in order to avoid being totally annihilated at the next election for not delivering Brexit.
We're fucked, might as well try to enjoy it. Think of England.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

Replies to this message:
 Message 667 by Diomedes, posted 06-21-2019 9:17 AM Tangle has not replied
 Message 668 by caffeine, posted 06-21-2019 4:19 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 692 of 887 (859153)
07-29-2019 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 691 by jar
07-29-2019 10:38 AM


Re: How Low Can It Go?
We're about to become a great place for you guys to come for a holiday.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 691 by jar, posted 07-29-2019 10:38 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 694 by caffeine, posted 07-30-2019 10:10 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 707 of 887 (859580)
08-01-2019 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 706 by Stile
08-01-2019 2:54 PM


Re: So now what?
Guys, leave us alone, this is private grief.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 706 by Stile, posted 08-01-2019 2:54 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 708 by jar, posted 08-01-2019 5:25 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 709 by AZPaul3, posted 08-01-2019 5:58 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 722 of 887 (861862)
08-28-2019 11:41 AM


She could refuse, but convention is that she won't.
I believe the last time a king intervened it caused a civil war.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

Replies to this message:
 Message 723 by Diomedes, posted 08-28-2019 12:17 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 724 of 887 (861872)
08-28-2019 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 723 by Diomedes
08-28-2019 12:17 PM


From what I hear, they're going for a legal challenge first. But this has come out of the blue, the opposition is playing catchup.
btw, Queenie has now agreed.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 723 by Diomedes, posted 08-28-2019 12:17 PM Diomedes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 725 by Diomedes, posted 08-28-2019 3:31 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 745 of 887 (862410)
09-04-2019 6:50 PM


This has now become a mugger’s buggle

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 751 of 887 (862440)
09-05-2019 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 749 by Percy
09-05-2019 9:16 AM


Re: Why would the EU grant an extension?
Percy writes:
I've probably said this before, but why can't Britain reverse Brexit?
It can. It would need another vote. And the vote would have to come out 'stay'.
Why is the result of this populist resolution considered cast in stone?
It isn't, but it would need another vote.
Every few years, as in all countries, Britain reverses itself and puts the opposite party in charge. Why can't Britain reverse itself on Brexit?
Why doesn't the USA change the 2nd amendment?
I hear that the political temperature on Brexit is a close thing, that there is no guarantee that voting on it again wouldn't again be a close affair, but that makes no sense.
Sense? It's the great unwashed we're talking about here.
The British people couldn't possibly be so dense.
You're kidding?
Brexit passed because its negative aspects were not understood at the time. Now they are. How could Brexit ever pass again?
Because people en masse are fucking stupid. You know that. Educated, rational, thoughtful people are a minority, that's why it's a really fucking stupid idea to ask the masses a complicated question.
I'm sure i've again revealed my woeful ignorance of British politics, but that's the way I feel.
No, you've just revealed your ignorance of the majority of people. Just like our politicians did. Well one of them, Cameron.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 749 by Percy, posted 09-05-2019 9:16 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 752 by Percy, posted 09-05-2019 12:19 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 753 of 887 (862468)
09-05-2019 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 752 by Percy
09-05-2019 12:19 PM


Re: Why would the EU grant an extension?
Percy writes:
The reason for that phrasing is because the way I often hear it described over here is that there can't be another vote on Brexit because it would be undemocratic.
That's just propaganda. There could be another vote and it would be democratic. The argument is that we had no idea what Brexit was when we voted, now we are beginning to understand that there are different forms of it - some, seemingly suicidal. We need another vote to be sure what is actually wanted.
In other words, fear mongering works.
Brexit has to be fought with equivalent fear mongering. For example, one doesn't argue that Britain's position in the EU makes it the financial center, and so Britain should stay. One instead argues that a good portion of Britain's financial power would move to the continent, and so Britain shouldn't leave.
The remainers were accused of 'project fear' - pointing out all the problems of Brexit. It didn't work and it won't work. The majority of Brexiters are older, poorer and less educated - they don't care how bad it will be, they just want out. It's a simple and misguided rejection of current politics (and immigration). They were ignored by politics and politicians for too long. A similar sentiment got you Trump. They want it broken.
The sad thing is that it's just those people that will be harmed by Brexit.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 752 by Percy, posted 09-05-2019 12:19 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 801 of 887 (867781)
12-03-2019 2:42 AM
Reply to: Message 800 by AZPaul3
12-02-2019 9:13 PM


Re: Boris Johnson Set for 68-Seat Majority According to YouGov Poll
AZPaul writes:
So, Britain is lost to the rational world. If that poll prediction pans out true then the grave injury you inflict to yourselves will be generations long.
This too will pass.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 800 by AZPaul3, posted 12-02-2019 9:13 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 802 by AZPaul3, posted 12-03-2019 3:35 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 808 of 887 (868465)
12-12-2019 5:46 PM


Oh, bollocks

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

  
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