Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,876 Year: 4,133/9,624 Month: 1,004/974 Week: 331/286 Day: 52/40 Hour: 3/3


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 3841 of 5796 (868454)
12-12-2019 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 3840 by Faith
12-12-2019 2:48 PM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
quote:
STOP TELLING ME WHAT I "MEAN!!!!!!!!" I MEAN WHAT I SAID.
It seems to be your main objection to my reading. It’s not as if you offered any substantive criticisms.
quote:
YOU ARE DOING WHAT THE DEMOCRATS ARE DOING, JUST MAKING IT UP TO SUIT YOURSELF, MAKING ME SAY WHAT YOU THINK JUST AS THEY ARE MAKING TRUMP SAY WHAT THEY THINK.
I guess that means I was right.
quote:
THIS IS EVIL EVIL EVIL. STOP IT!!!!!!
I don’t think that anyone using personal attacks to try to deny the evidence is any position to throw accusations like that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3840 by Faith, posted 12-12-2019 2:48 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3843 by Faith, posted 12-12-2019 4:37 PM PaulK has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 3842 of 5796 (868456)
12-12-2019 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 3840 by Faith
12-12-2019 2:48 PM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
You're funny.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3840 by Faith, posted 12-12-2019 2:48 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 3843 of 5796 (868458)
12-12-2019 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 3841 by PaulK
12-12-2019 2:57 PM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
You arte the one doing the personal attack on me as you always do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3841 by PaulK, posted 12-12-2019 2:57 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3844 by PaulK, posted 12-12-2019 4:49 PM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 3844 of 5796 (868460)
12-12-2019 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 3843 by Faith
12-12-2019 4:37 PM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
I’m the one who has actual evidence. All you have is empty accusations. You can’t show a single error in my reading of the transcript.
It’s a fact that Trump asked for a favour right after Zelensky alluded to the aid.
It’s a fact that that the favour involved searching for a rumoured server that supposedly contained evidence that would exonerate the GRU of hacking the DNC. In fact rumoured is kind, since the rumour was a nutty conspiracy theory,
It’s a fact that Trump bad mouthed Mueller and the previous ambassador to the Ukraine (and I doubt that THAT is at all normal)
It’s a fact that Trump made no mention of corruption. He did complain about the sacking of the prosecutor for which he blamed Joe Biden - and specifically asked for that to be investigated.
It’s a fact that Trump asked Zelensky to coordinate with Giuliani- who held no official position, simply being present as Trump’s personal lawyer. And I doubt that that is normal either.
And that’s just the transcript, we also have the aid being withheld without any good explanation. Aid that the Republicans in the Senate thought very important to US interests.
So come on. Offer something of substance instead of you can’t read the transcript properly - without any explanation of the alleged errors.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3843 by Faith, posted 12-12-2019 4:37 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3845 by Faith, posted 12-12-2019 4:52 PM PaulK has replied
 Message 3848 by Percy, posted 12-12-2019 8:43 PM PaulK has not replied
 Message 3860 by Faith, posted 12-13-2019 5:52 PM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 3845 of 5796 (868461)
12-12-2019 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 3844 by PaulK
12-12-2019 4:49 PM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
Facts need to be interpreted and you are misinterpreting them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3844 by PaulK, posted 12-12-2019 4:49 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3846 by PaulK, posted 12-12-2019 4:57 PM Faith has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 3846 of 5796 (868463)
12-12-2019 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 3845 by Faith
12-12-2019 4:52 PM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
quote:
Facts need to be interpreted and you are misinterpreting them.
There isn’t a lot of interpretation there. There is the obvious implication in jumping from the aid to the favour - but there’s plenty of corroborating evidence for that.
So which interpretations are wrong - and what evidence is there that they are wrong. Come on. Provide substance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3845 by Faith, posted 12-12-2019 4:52 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3853 by PaulK, posted 12-13-2019 12:27 AM PaulK has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1433 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 3847 of 5796 (868468)
12-12-2019 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 3837 by PaulK
12-12-2019 1:27 PM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
Except that obviously isn’t what is going on. Trump didn’t talk about corruption - he was meant to, but he dropped that part completely. Nor does it explain the secrecy about the withholding of aid.
More specifically it doesn’t explain the release of the aid 2 days after the holding was exposed. IF Trumpski had a legitimate reason to hold the aid he would not need to release it.
That is telling us Trumpski KNEW it was illegal.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmericanZenDeist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3837 by PaulK, posted 12-12-2019 1:27 PM PaulK has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22502
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 3848 of 5796 (868470)
12-12-2019 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 3844 by PaulK
12-12-2019 4:49 PM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
PaulK writes:
It’s a fact...It’s a fact...It’s a fact...It’s a fact...It’s a fact...
And you can add to those facts the ones of the testimony before Congress and the Giuliani admission.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3844 by PaulK, posted 12-12-2019 4:49 PM PaulK has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 3849 of 5796 (868472)
12-12-2019 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 3784 by Percy
12-10-2019 11:49 AM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
(strike the last word)
It makes the point that foreign leaders regard Trump as a joke. Your post doesn't reflect an understanding of what parody is.
I understand where parody belongs and where it does not. It's fine on SNL, on political commentary shows, on talk radio be it liberal or conservative, in everyday conversations involving just about anybody. Pelosi and others have claimed that this impeachment process, is very serious, very grave, very unfortunate. Official statements about it by a congressperson, let alone a committee chair, is where it DOES NOT BELONG. Who, in an attempted walk-back of Schiff's LIE, coined the term, "parody", for this lie? It was Schiff himself. It's amazing how many others quickly attempt to help him with damage control.
Cover for him how?
By taking off and running with his "parody" excuse.
He received a lot of criticism in the mainstream media for acting in a way inappropriate and undignified for a House Committee Chairman.
I guess that depends on what the definition of "a lot" is.
So when Trump calls Schiff a "maniac" and "a deranged human being" and "a very sick man" and a liar and that he deserves to be in jail, that's justified because of insults directed at Trump after his 2015 announcement over four years ago?
Schiff only seems to have grown horns recently. He's been a member of the House since 2001. He agreed with Bush 43 about the invasion of Iraq. I never noticed him being in the news at all until very recently. He doesn't seem to have a nasty, tyrannical ambition like...Bernie Sanders, Beto O'Rourke, Tom Steyer, many others. He really seems like he could be a nice guy. What could have caused him to turn out to be a such a partisan liar so suddenly? My common sense suspicion, that you scoff at, is that he's after a money prize. That is what has turned him into a deranged maniac, a liar. Need some evidence that he's a liar?
Adam Schiff Reading Self Written Clown Parody LIED To Congress
Adam Schiff credibility crumbling amid Donald Trump impeachment push - Washington Times
MSNBC | Washington Examiner
Adam Schiff Lies About Vindman Testimony in Next Hearing
Adam Schiff Lied That He Doesn’t Know The Identity Of The Whistleblower – Def-Con News
Adam Schiff Caught in Another Major Lie
I only have one guy I'm tracking insults/attacks from, and that's Trump. I'm not deep searching the web for Trump attacks/insults, they're all right there in the headlines from all news media, including Fox News usually. If these attacks/insults were actually instigated by attacks/insults from Democrats then they should be very easy for you to find, so find them.
This List Of Attacks Against Conservatives Is Mind Blowing | The Daily Caller
The 7 Worst Liberal Attacks on Donald Trump's Family
Liberal attacks on Trump are so unhinged, it might get him killed
https://cowgernation.com/...ting-the-catholic-apostles-creed
quote:
When 95% of media donates to Democrats it is no surprise that 90% of the stories they run about Trump are nasty smears and character assassinations.
The Mainstream Media has become a 24/7 Attack on Trump • iPatriot Contributers •
My "'splainin'" comment was just a riff on I Love Lucy to indicate that you'd already told us all we needed to know, but thank you for the additional clarification about your homophobia.
Do you have a derogatory name for those who started this organization?
NLGJA: The Association of LGBTQ Journalists - Wikipedia
Hetrophobes? No? Double standard?
But I don't know of their existence. I know you keep claiming they exist, but you can't seem to produce any examples. Every attempt you've made has been rebutted nine ways from Sunday.
See above, get busy. Schiff has been shown to be a liar nine ways from Sunday. Need more links?
But unlike you, I can prove what I say is true. For any particular adjective you'd like to challenge I'll have no trouble finding a post from me documenting Trump displaying that exact trait. Perhaps you'd like to start with "cruel" (treatment of illegal immigrants at the border). How about "vengeful" (so many examples, I'll chose just one, tweeting insults at Yavanovich while she was testifying). Maybe you prefer "misogynistic" (can objections to this even be raised?). Then there's "racist" (Charlottesville). And "scheming" (the plot to force Ukraine to investigate a domestic political rival). Pick your adjective, they're all easily proven.
"Cruel", every single past U.S. president can be accused of being cruel at one time or another during their presidency. Was FDR cruel when he ordered Japanese Americans rounded up shortly after Pearl Harbor? It's only one example - all your adjectives come from a liberal political view. If they were simple true facts about who he is, he wouldn't be president, and wouldn't have the support he has from somewhere around half the population.
marc9000 writes:
Fox news is less biased than the mainstream media.
So even Fox News isn't an acceptable source for you? You're going to have to tell me your supposedly legitimate unbiased news sources.
How in this world do you take from my comment about Fox News' lack of bias to mean that I don't find them acceptable?
ABC World News Tonight averages about 8.6 million viewers nightly, which is about 3.4% of the adult population. It is not "the only news source for many Americans." Like I said, the reason you say so many incorrect things, nearly everything you write, is because you never take the trouble to check whether what you think has any factual basis.
Point taken, that was my mistake. ABC World News Tonight claims to be "America's most watched news source". They obviously lie.
You need serious help with logic and analysis. Trump sought to pressure Ukraine to make a public announcement of an investigation of Biden corruption to hurt Joe Biden's chances of obtaining the Democratic nomination.
Or maybe it was just an attempt to get justice for serious past U.S. government corruption. What evidence do you have to show that Trump was nervous about facing Biden in the 2020 election, well over a year before that election? Ever since all these Democrats have come forward seeking the nomination, Trump and most conservatives clearly see that none of them are much of a threat to defeat Trump in 2020. All the scrambling, the new billionaires like Bloomberg, Steyer etc recently jumping in, and other things make it obvious.
Of course you can't prove it. You're using a Trumpism, just like the one Trump used in the White House transcript of the phone call with Zelensky where he says, "They say Crowdstrike." Who's "they?" Trump does this all time. "They're saying this" and "they're saying that" when the only person saying it is Trump. This is what he does when he's making things up and can't prove what he's saying. That's why you just now had to add that you can't prove what you're saying, because saying stuff like "I've heard it somewhere" is not only not proof of anything, it's just a false way of trying to lend weight to something with no evidence.
Most posters here say things without constantly providing links to back them up. And often when they do, they only link to remarks from others who are opinionated just like they are. Check out the links in Message 3594 They're pretty useless, as are most claims of "proof" that are linked on message boards. I lend weight to things that I see in my life's experiences. A reader can accept them, or dismiss them. It's the way I choose to do it, you can censure me or ban me if you feel the need.
If moving forward on impeachment is only going to hurt them, then you should be delighted that the Democrats are doing this. It's not just you saying this, many Republicans and many voices in the conservative media are claiming that impeachment just hurts the Democrats. In that case you should all be urging the Democrats on in their self destructive ways.
But you're not,
How do you know I'm not? I've had the hearings on in the background today off and on, and I'm enjoying it.
because at least inside you understand that the Democrats' actions hurt Trump. They hurt themselves, too, because a significant proportion of the electorate believes Trump did nothing wrong.
Compared to Obama, he hasn't.
realclearpolitics.com
Review & Outlook: Obama's Abuse of Power - WSJ
quote:
The Obama administration was full of scandal, though we have a lazy and partisan news media that is determined to see no scandal in it.
Obama’s Many Scandals: Abuse of Government Power Worse Than Sex Scandals | National Review
Now, let's see how quickly you dismiss the links I've provided in this message, and maybe you'll see why I limit my time and effort in doing it.
I yield back.....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3784 by Percy, posted 12-10-2019 11:49 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3861 by Percy, posted 12-13-2019 9:35 PM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1522
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 3850 of 5796 (868474)
12-12-2019 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 3828 by PaulK
12-12-2019 12:24 AM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
marc9000 writes:
Abuse of power that can be noticed in the everyday lives of the population. The Democrats current definition of "abuse of power" doesn't get anywhere near that.
You still provide zero evidence that the Founders agreed with you. Using Presidential powers to coerce a foreign nation to interfere with the US electoral process on the other hand, is as clear an example of abuse of power as you will get.
Not when it's compared with the power that was exercised by past presidents. And not when it's compared with the issues the founders had with the King of England. If you read the Declaration of Independence, you'll see a lot of concern with the King's abuse of power concerning the people, not any of his dealings with other foreign countries.
The suggestion is that Trump has done or will do other things that deserve impeachment. Which is practically certain. So you’ve clearly failed. On the other hand Faith is all for impeaching a Democrat President - whoever it is - without any other reason at all.
In the future, Republicans will have no choice but to impeach the next Democrat president, though I doubt there will be another Democrat president in any of our lifetimes. They could have impeached Obama multiple times for some of his abuses of power, but they didn't because they weren't completely unhinged like today's Democrats are. If they don't impeach a future Democrat president, it will be claimed by Democrats that they don't do it because they CAN'T, that Democrats are too pure. Republicans will be forced to use the same flimsy standards that today's Democrats are using.
Hilary Clinton won the popular vote.
Where in the constitution does it say that means a thing, concerning presidential elections?
More Americans support impeachment than oppose it
Impeachment: Poll shows most Americans don't want Trump removed
Majority of Americans don't want Trump to be impeached, new poll finds - CBS News
Poll Shows the Majority of Americans Still Don't Want Trump Impeached – RedState
https://twnews.us/...ricans-don-t-want-trump-to-be-impeached

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3828 by PaulK, posted 12-12-2019 12:24 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3851 by Faith, posted 12-12-2019 11:40 PM marc9000 has not replied
 Message 3852 by PaulK, posted 12-13-2019 12:15 AM marc9000 has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 3851 of 5796 (868475)
12-12-2019 11:40 PM
Reply to: Message 3850 by marc9000
12-12-2019 9:36 PM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
Thanks Marc, for your contributions to sanity here. I don't do a very good job of keeping track of the facts and details so I'm very glad that you do. The amazing thing is how they can make words mean whatever they want them to mean, really amazing. I hope you are right about no more Democrat Presidents in our lifetime but I think the country is still deceived, they don't hear the truth, they are told it's a lie if they do, it's really amazing.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3850 by marc9000, posted 12-12-2019 9:36 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 3852 of 5796 (868478)
12-13-2019 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 3850 by marc9000
12-12-2019 9:36 PM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
quote:
Not when it's compared with the power that was exercised by past presidents. And not when it's compared with the issues the founders had with the King of England. If you read the Declaration of Independence, you'll see a lot of concern with the King's abuse of power concerning the people, not any of his dealings with other foreign countries.
You are of course completely ignoring the fact that the coercion is intended to cause interference with the electoral process. To retain power.. That is an abuse that would likely concern the Founders.
quote:
In the future, Republicans will have no choice but to impeach the next Democrat president, though I doubt there will be another Democrat president in any of our lifetimes. They could have impeached Obama multiple times for some of his abuses of power, but they didn't because they weren't completely unhinged like today's Democrats are. If they don't impeach a future Democrat president, it will be claimed by Democrats that they don't do it because they CAN'T, that Democrats are too pure. Republicans will be forced to use the same flimsy standards that today's Democrats are using
Bill Clinton was treated worse than Trump has been and less clearly deserved impeachment. And the American people agreed. The Democrats did not take revenge.
I doubt you could find abuses of power as egregious as those that Trump is being impeached for. And it is quite likely that Trump has already committed similar acts with no talk of impeachment for those.
So the reality is, Trump deserves impeachment. The Republican Party have unleashed a storm of hate and lies. And if the Democrats do not abandon their constitutional powers the Republicans will do exactly what they - falsely - accused the Democrats of doing.
If the Republicans aren’t allowed to negate the checks and balances in the Constitution you want those checks and balances abused to make the government unworkable. This is nothing less than a declaration of war against the Constitution.
quote:
Where in the constitution does it say that means a thing, concerning presidential elections?
Learn to read in context Marc. The subject is the opinion of the American people. Don’t you think the fact that the American people preferred Hilary Clinton to Donald Trump is relevant ?
And your polls are from September and August.
In November factcheck.org reported:
Nationally, public sentiment is more pro-impeachment than it is in just swing states. According to the Real Clear Politics average of recent polls, a plurality of voters, 48.1%, support impeachment and removing Trump, while 44.9% do not. That’s an average of many polls, including recent polls from NBC News/Wall Street Journal, ABC News/Washington Post, Fox News, Economist/YouGov, Politico/Morning Consult, USA Today/Suffolk, Grinnell College/Selzer, Quinnipiac and CNN.
Edited by PaulK, : Typo & punctuation

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3850 by marc9000, posted 12-12-2019 9:36 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3878 by marc9000, posted 12-15-2019 4:17 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 3853 of 5796 (868479)
12-13-2019 12:27 AM
Reply to: Message 3846 by PaulK
12-12-2019 4:57 PM


Re: More Trump Attack/Insult Tweets
And look. No substance.
Thank you Faith, for proving me right. I guess that you really do think that telling the truth is evil, evil, evil.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3846 by PaulK, posted 12-12-2019 4:57 PM PaulK has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


(2)
Message 3854 of 5796 (868493)
12-13-2019 10:13 AM


The American Conservative gets it
The Case For Impeachment Is Overwhelming
The president’s abuse of power is not in dispute. It is clear that he used the powers of his office in an attempt to extract a corrupt favor for his personal benefit, and this is precisely the sort of offense that impeachment was designed to keep in check. It doesn’t matter if the attempt succeeded. All that matters is that the attempt was made. It is also undeniable that he has sought to impede the investigation into his misconduct. The president has committed the offenses he is accused of committing, and the House should approve both articles of impeachment.
If we have any respect left for the Constitution and the rule of law, it is imperative that the president is not allowed to escape without facing serious consequences for his abuses.
Of course Marc and Faith have made it clear that they have NO respect for the Constitution, and are openly out to wreck it in the name of unfettered tyranny.
Edited by PaulK, : Removed unwanted space from url tag

Replies to this message:
 Message 3855 by Theodoric, posted 12-13-2019 10:35 AM PaulK has not replied
 Message 3856 by Faith, posted 12-13-2019 10:41 AM PaulK has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 3855 of 5796 (868497)
12-13-2019 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 3854 by PaulK
12-13-2019 10:13 AM


Re: The American Conservative gets it
Your link is bad. I think the problem is a space url=
The Case For Impeachment Is Overwhelming

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3854 by PaulK, posted 12-13-2019 10:13 AM PaulK has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024