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Author | Topic: The Trump Presidency | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
RAZD writes: But if the subpoenas are issued now they have more time to work through the courts. I think it is rather cynical to even ask the courts to rule on whether someone has to obey a subpoena. I don't see how someone can question such a basic and fundamental constitutional power. If a citizen stated, "You know, I don't think I have to obey a subpoena," what would happen to them? I would think most courts would laugh at them, and hold them in contempt. People have been jailed for months for simply refusing to testify. How is this not settled law? Agreed, and I would have thought that the Supreme Court ruling on the Nixon subpoenas would have settled the matter. Perhaps the dems should have those who have ignored the subpoenas arrested -- the way every other citizen would be treated. Enjoyby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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RAZD writes:
After all, subpoena means "under penalty". Perhaps the dems should have those who have ignored the subpoenas arrested -- the way every other citizen would be treated."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Trump has committed multiple impeachable offenses, but if only Ukraine articles of impeachment reach the Senate then for that trial its a one-off crime. The first successful removal of a president will require a broad range of charges that are deep in evidence. So would it not be useful to put together a timeline of all the impeachable offenses, from asking for Russian assistance during his campaign up to today? List all the subpoenas that have not been complied with would be a start. To drive the point home, they could start arresting them for non-compliance. Enjoyby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8557 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
deleted. research needed.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Percy Member Posts: 22499 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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It seems to have been little noticed (I think Vox picked it up) that Rudy Giuliani admitted in a tweet that Trump administration interest in Ukrainian corruption was based upon "compelling evidence of criminal conduct by then VP Biden, in 2016":
There it is in a nutshell: to Trump, Ukrainian corruption means Joe Biden. --Percy
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5951 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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Perhaps the dems should have those who have ignored the subpoenas arrested -- the way every other citizen would be treated. I agree fully. But who will do that arresting? US Marshals? The ones working for Bolshevik Barr's subverted Department of Justice? And where would they be detained? In the jails run by that same subverted DoJ? There is a jail run by Congress which hasn't been used for several decades. I don't know what it would take to get it up and running again, but it seems to be the only alternative. My understanding is that the Sergeant of Arms would be the one to go out and physically arrest the subpoena violators, but how much law enforcement muscle can he pack outside of that subverted DoJ? Remember that when the inspectors general were becoming aware of wrongdoing surrounding the Trump-Ukraine Affair they did what they were supposed to do: submit to the DoJ criminal referrals (I think that's the term) that call for investigation to determine, at the very least, whether there is any criminal activity. Barr's response was to completely ignore those referrals, not even do the barest minimal investigation to determine whether there was even any there there. That is the subverted and perverted Department of Justice that we have now. What I'm waiting to see is what the Trump Mob will do when all their legalistic delays play out and the courts issue a final court order that they must honor those subpoenas. Will they just simply ignore a court order? And if they do, then what? Wouldn't it take the DoJ to enforce that court order? Bolshevik Barr's subverted and perverted DoJ? Just how is that going to play out? Laws are all meaningless unless they are enforced. The Constitution of the United States of America is absolutely meaningless unless it is enforced. Trump is not only trying to destroy the Constitution (for profit!), but he is succeeding in destroying the Presidency. After Trump, one of the first orders of business will be to enact very explicitly stated laws of what the President is not allowed to do. After Trump has violated almost every presidential norm just because there was no actual law about it, there will most definitely be very specific laws against every single violation of those "norms".
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JonF Member (Idle past 195 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Digby raises a scary possibility at Trump hears Rudy got "a lot of good information" over there in Ukraine:
quote:Apparently Trump wants Rudy to report to Congress |
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JonF Member (Idle past 195 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
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Percy Member Posts: 22499 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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CNN reports about a Growing divide between Trump and McConnell over impeachment trial | CNN Politics. While it's reassuring to hear that McConnell will not be Trump's lapdog in defining how the impeachment trial will be conducted in the Senate, how is it appropriate that they are even talking about this subject at all? Why is the defendant permitted to negotiate with the lead juror, the jury foreman so to speak? If the principles need to speak then it should be in the judge's chambers, which would be Chief Justice John Roberts' chambers.
I understand that the Constitution doesn't cover these kinds of details, but legal precedent, mere propriety, and maintaining at least the appearance of conducting a fair and unbiased trial, all demand that there be no informal contact on this subject between the White House and the Senate. All contact should go through formal proscribed channels, likely formal letters and memoranda. Just for the record, the article says that McConnell wants a quick and concise trial, while Trump wants a lengthy show trial where he calls witnesses like Joe Biden, Hunter Biden and the whistleblower. McConnell seems to want an actual trial, while Trump wants political theater with himself as the director. --Percy
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JonF Member (Idle past 195 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
We're at the point where the Russian Foreign Minister is much more believable than our President.
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Percy Member Posts: 22499 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
The Inspector General's report on the Carter Page FISA applications can be found here: Review of Four FISA Applications and Other Aspects of the FBI s Crossfire Hurricane Investigation.
Here are the problems the IG found with the first Carter Page FISA application:
Here are the problems the IG found in the three subsequent Carter Page FISA renewals:
--Percy Edited by Percy, : Replace the link to the Fox News version of the IG report to the one at the Justice Department which is much better because it is searchable and copyable.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8557 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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And all this gobbledygook means what, exactly?
Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Percy Member Posts: 22499 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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I extracted the problems the IG identified with the Carter Page FISA application and renewals to make it easier to find them. I think people should make of them what they will.
If you want my own opinion it's that when you spend at least a hundred times more effort and time analyzing documents than it took to create them you'll inevitably find issues and problems. I also think that a number of the points are very poorly described and lack a great deal of context, making them very difficult to interpret. It's often difficult to ferret out where the problem lies that is purportedly being described, or even why it is a problem at all. Probably someone could easily write a report detailing the deficiencies of the IG's investigation and report. People writing these things with the benefit of hindsight and much greater time and manpower forget that their own efforts are as colored with human imperfection as the subject of their own report. For example, if Report 95 is so important it should be footnoted, and the footnote should point to where in the document Report 95 is described. I still don't know what Report 95 is. It's first mention is in point 3 - it isn't previously described. Reports 80 and 102 that are also referenced are not described. Were I grading the IG report for clarity I would give it a D-. The points are also a hatchet job on Christopher Steele. The investigation obviously made a great effort to seek out derogatory information, but Steele worked for MI6 for 22 years in positions of increasing responsibility, and over the years he must have received a number of very complementary reviews, but no mention of this is made at all in the IG's Steele hit list, er, report. I also think that even though Attorney General Barr and Senator Lindsey Graham and other Republicans who have gone over to the dark side do not believe the IG went far enough in pursuing and endorsing Trump's conspiracy theories, I believe he was still influenced by the knowledge that Trump makes it very, uh, uncomfortable for those he perceives as lacking sufficient enthusiasm for them. As compensation for not buying into the Trump conspiracy theories I believe the IG came down far harder on the FBI than was warranted by the evidence. --Percy Edited by Percy, : Typo.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member
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I haven't read the actual report, but the portions that Percy quoted sound very much like the complaints those on the Left have been making about the secret FISA warrents since FISA was enacted.
Funny how the process becomes a problem when rich white guys in positions of power become the subjects.For this generation of far-right nationalists, religion is not a question of ethical conduct; it is purely about identity and peoplehood. -- Jan-Werner Müller
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Percy Member Posts: 22499 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Assuming the House passed the two articles of impeachment, Trump will face trail before the Senate. Trump is the defendant and will be defended by his defense team, the Senate is the jury, and prosecutors will be appointed by the House.
Mitch McConnell, Speaker of the Senate, is, in essence, the jury foreman, and he has a unique twist on fair and unbiased trials. In a late Thursday interview with Sean Hannity, Mitch McConnell committed to "total coordination" with the White House and Trump's defense team. A better example of collusion could not be found. Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/...c1-fd0d91b60d9e_story.html --Percy
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