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Author | Topic: Christianity is Morally Bankrupt | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: ... any outward manifestation of Jesus in their heart It would help if you told us how to identify and test any outward manifestation of Jesus in their heart. You see Phat, that's just another meaningless phrase, a feel good cop out to avoid making any sense. What we do have as evidence is what you post and so far nothing you post has shown any outward manifestation of Jesus in ones heart.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat, you are the person who is claiming that some folk do show an outward manifestation of Jesus in their heart.
Your response as expected simply never addresses the question. How do you identify an outward manifestation of Jesus in their heart?
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Let's go deeper, though. There are some loving and giving selfless people in this world. They are few and far between but they are the ones who give unselfishly and often, go out of their way to help anyone and everyone that they come across, and do it with little pomp or desire to attract attention to themselves. They often have a warm glow about them. They look as if they are in love. I would say that they are in love with Jesus first, and people as a result. You could argue that these people don't have to profess any belief and that they just exist throughout all beliefs ad cultures. I would argue that they surely must know Jesus. You might argue that Jesus being alive or present does not really matter. Again, nothing but word salad. You would argue that they surely must know Jesus but based on WHAT?
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Got me. That was a question I asked as well.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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There is a Christian centric answer though and from CS Lewis in the Last Battle Narnia book.
The answer really runs through much of the Red Letter parts of the New Testament. Jesus takes any good things done by anyone as though they were done for Him while bad things are done for evil.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Actually Faith, the idea of the Holy Spirit is one of the least supportable parts of basic Christian Doctrine with almost no Biblical evidence. It did not even enter Christian Doctrine until the Third Century, over two hundred years after Jesus and even then most of Christianity denied the concept of the Holy Spirit.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Post the actual evidence Faith.
BUT the fact remains that the whole concept of the Holy Spirit was a later HUMAN creation over 200 years after Jesus and at the time opposed by most Christians. You cannot doubt that fact since it is actual Christian history.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Actually, the New Testament is replete with examples of Jesus performing miracles but not taking any credit for them. The example of the Wedding booze run is just such an instance, Jesus miracles the best wine into existence but lets everyone think the host just saved the best for last.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Sheesh Faith, learn the very basics of Christianity.
quote: From this source. The original version of the Nicene Creed did not mention the Holy Spirit; it was added in a later revision. This is very basic Christian history Faith.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
There is no evidence that anyone other than the mother knew but we have no clue who wrote the story and the actual story itself says that Jesus did NOT take credit for the miracle.
Sorry Faith but once again, the fact is what is actually written, not the Bible created in YOUR image.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
If they read the story, yes.
BUT that is still irrelevant. The point is that Jesus in the actual stories often did not take credit for the miracles and even in several cases told the people not to talk about it. Jesus performing miracles to impress the crowd is a later invention in story telling, particularly from the author or authers of John.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
No one said he invented it but the FACT remains that it was NOT established doctrine until hundreds of years after Jesus. Then the Apologist having created the Holy Ghost in their image started pulling pieces parts from the Bible to support their predetermined conclusions.
Faith the fact is that even 200 years after Jesus the concept of the Holy Spirit and the Trinity were not broadly accepted. Even today Faith there are Non-Trinitarian Christians. Whether you like it or not, reality exists. Edited by jar, : add a missing "n"
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
LOL
Yet the reality is that both Trinitarians and Non-Trinitarians and even Roman Catholics are all still Christians. Christian doctrine is a human creation that has evolved over time and will continue to change and evolve in the future.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Yes; it's called taking pieces parts out of context to support a desired conclusion.
We know that. But the fact remains that the Holy Spirit was only included hundreds of years after Jesus and the concept of the Trinity is still not universally accepted.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: How could there be any "desired conclusion?" That's easy. Just look at the Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy. It begins with a desired conclusion and then goes on to make unsupported assertions to justify the conclusion. Look at your own behavior. You begin with the desired conclusion that the Bible is factually accurate and even when it is clear that you cannot present any model, mechanism, method, process or procedure where any flood could produce the evidence that exists in reality you simply admit that you don't care about the details, the facts or reality and go on with your desired conclusion.
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