Testing The Christian Apologists

I too report what other authors have said. You dismiss all of my sources as carny hucksters, even ones with actual credentials! It does not surprise me in that you have gone on record criticizing even Paul of Tarsus. How jar of Texas can do that is clear when one sees that jar markets the idea that the Bible is simply human ideas of various god characters. The reason I don't respond to your arguments is that the conclusion you want me to see is that God is unknowable and that we humans are charged with living like Jesus(only better) rather than following Him.

I want to believe God Himself. OK, quick question. Why didn't you ever tell me to throw the Bible away? You always said to throw God away.Christianity taught me to trust God and accept Him into my heart (and mind) through the character of Jesus.Had i been a student in your Bible Study I would have been taught that the book has contradictions, which I will give you for the moment.If so, how am I going to find how to accept God when the Bible teacher says to throw Him away? Just what are you teaching? I know you teach that Christianity is about what we do. That much isn't in dispute. What is in dispute is a Bible "teacher" who advocates simply going out, studying all of the religions, and doing good to your fellow human. Does that sum it up? And what about that Bible? Keep or Toss?Oh, and what about God? Should we still throw Him away?

I wouldn't say it is any better. I would say that it is at least as good. My belief is that God is known initially through a spiritual epiphany, which may have at one time happened to you before you quenched the fire through your stronger belief in science and evidence and your observation that Christians around you had nothing special going on that unbelievers did not have.The goat herders had a lot of quiet time to think. Thus, the cultural ideas about God in general likely led to the writing that God lied to A&E. My "religionism" was partly cultural and partly transcendent. The older I get, however, the more that I realize that my transcendent experience was an awakening more than it was a transformation. It is beginning to look as if you and jar are correct in that what I do leads to further evidence of a transformative personality and outlook. I wished that God would have totally changed and transformed me, but evidently He expects some work out of me!
As for our goat herders, they worked a lot! I likely couldn't even handle a day full of what they did. They, like I, encountered certain problems and challenges for which even hard work couldn't overcome, so they, as I, turned to the God of their understanding. I can speculate that they had more challenges and obstacles in life than I do, so perhaps their faith was stronger than mine.

The transcendent experience. I had one. That much I know.

A "bad burrito", more commonly known as food poisoning, is a biological reaction to toxic chemicals being accidentally ingested. The feelings can range anywhere from nausea to brief paranoia or even euphoric feelings, which are a temporary response to the toxins, which eventually are fought off and destroyed by the body.Full recovery usually happens in 1-5 days or in rare occasions through professional medical care. What I experienced was initially a bit of detachment and serenity, which can happen after any mind altering experience. It was unique enough that I, a former recreational drug user, could differentiate it from any reaction to any mind altering substance i had ever done. Notably, the altering of my perspective and mental state was felt even more profoundly 24-60 hours later. I literally felt almost as one feels when they fall in love. the concept of God, which had never been internalized, was at that time perceived on a personal familial level. God became forever alive that day. This awareness radiated out from me and many whom I knew at the time commented on how different I was. As the day faded from short term memory, it grew in long term awareness.I actually wanted to go to church---not for the people there so much---I still barely knew them, but because I felt as if God---or something alien and powerful---was actually alive and living inside of me.What more recollection and/or descriptions of my experience do you require?I have since asked others to explain how they knew they had gotten saved.
Many profess belief or membership in the club, but if you ask them where God is at this very moment, you will usually get similar answers: "Everywhere"...or "In Heaven" or even "right here beside me". The main difference that I noted came from those who were warm, loving, on fire for jesus, and hungry for more was that when you asked them where God was right now, they would as a group almost exclaim the same thing: "He is in my heart". Or He is in me. That's a notable difference in common that I have found through informal inquiry. Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

No, not at all. If anything, I became much more empathetic of other people. It was never just about me. Perhaps at times I felt as if it was about Jesus, for He had become as real to me as if He were my own Grandfather or treasured family friend. I have noted that now, years and years later (26 years to be exact) I have found that the feeling has faded yet is instantly accessible through prayer and voluntary cheerful good works. jar is right in that instance. Works prove salvation and indwelling, though many do good works who have neither of those attributes.

An apologist by definition defends the historic faith. Are you essentially claiming that any honest person is not going to defend a transcendent experience (or life) due simply to the fact that the god of science has already framed all of the conversion experiences into an explainable cultural milieu? I will not only disagree with that answer but completely ignore it.Granted, it may well be that today's fundamentalists are all brainwashed or sharing a common attribution error, but they will be a presence in world politics and will only get stronger if they become poorer. And yes, I am that same guy that wants to preserve my inheritance. I qualify as needy...as needy as any other disabled person. I am blind now in one eye and let me tell you, it makes me angry. If this society ignores me in pursuit of their own greed, the whole lot of them needs to be judged. And I believe that God will in fact do it. You may ask why I'm not counting on Jesus but on people. My answer? I am counting on Jesus. He does not expect the poor to give all that they have to help other poor.The widow gave two mites. I might give one mite if transformed enough...

Nobody mentions Satan. He is the evil one, not God. He tempts the people to go to war, dares them to wipe out their enemies, and causes them to stumble time and time and time again.

Samuel Colt created a revolver too. We dont hold him responsible for every wrong done with his guns.

After researching and watching yet another Christian Apologist, Dr.Abdu Murray, I am concluding that I see better reasoned and thoughtful arguments from them than I am seeing here.
Dr.Abdu MurrayI am open to see dishonesty from these talks, yet the only thing I see is well reasoned, persuasive arguments from people who actually have read both the Bible and the Quran and who have concluded that Christianity is worthy of trust.Go ahead and research my source. You won't find any snake oil or phony diplomas there. I submit that this whole basic argument asserting that all of the apologists are dishonest is flawed.

Most people? I'd like to see evidence for that!

I submit that most Christians believe that God is good---not complete, as you assert. Christians believe that Jesus Christ was indeed a male. I notice in some of your humor that you attempt to emasculate Him, as does our liberal inclusive culture. Satan is a wily adversary.

If your son pulled the trigger, would you be responsible?Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

Even a fallen angel? You claim that the story is silly. If one has a world view that espouses the Bible as fairytales, with no allowance toward belief in a transformative experience (which millions of Christians would attest to ) and if one advocates throwing the characters away and living life the same way an atheist would, I could see the connection. I have had some really good Christians--selfless, giving, and having read the Bible--tell me that the key to it all is submission to Jesus...whom YOU advocate "throwing away". So what if you went through the rituals of an established chapter of Christianity? You see it all as symbolic mythos anyway. And by claiming that such a God is evil, you prove that you don't understand the fact that Christianity is not all about what YOU do...its about what He did and about how YOU respond to what He did.

So your major beef with the doctrine of salvation from original sin is that it makes some of us feel exclusive? This then means that you believe that God, if God exists, is inclusive regarding salvation. That all God's chillun get saved, providing them relief from damnation, yet that they are then expected to become responsible, adopt an honor system, and DO their best. Nothing else needed. No transformation. In fact, God will likely let everyone into Heaven who at least made a decent effort to put in work for others. Is that a fair summation?