Testing The Christian Apologists

I submit that most Christians believe that God is good---not complete, as you assert. Christians believe that Jesus Christ was indeed a male. I notice in some of your humor that you attempt to emasculate Him, as does our liberal inclusive culture. Satan is a wily adversary.

And I would agree. But that of course has absolutely no weight as evidence other than that most people create God in their own image. Yet you are replying to the issue that people think God is a male. Think Phat. Try it. You'll like it.

Do you really want to go with that analogy? Smith and Wesson created a revolver too. So did many others. Do you really want to reduce your god to one of many who created bad things?If Sam Colt was the only one who ever created a deadly weapon, then yes, we would hold him responsible for every death by deadly weapon. So yes, since your God supposedly created all things seen and unseen, including all things deadly, then He is, in fact, responsible for every death.

What fruit did he eat?

Then show us their arguments. Show us that you understand them by putting them in your own words. Clearly not, since you keep refusing to bring their arguments here. No. You bring it here. This is a discussion site, not a do-your-homework-for-you site. If you're so confident in that, why are you afraid to bring their arguments here? You have submitted nothing but opinion - and you won't even tell us what your opinion is based on. You're making the apologists look even worse.

He had a conversation with a snake.

So he was talking to himself?

No, silly. His cousin Vinny. Vinny the Snake.The one who tried to hit on Eve.

If your son pulled the trigger, would you be responsible?Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

It depends on how old the son is, if the son could legally own the handgun, the specifics of the incident and also on the history of parental training.You keep bringing up really silly examples Phat.You claim that God is the creator of all that is, seen and unseen. If that is the case then yes, God is responsible for all evil and well as all good. And if that God created anyone who will be damned to hell then that God is definitely evil.

Even a fallen angel? You claim that the story is silly. If one has a world view that espouses the Bible as fairytales, with no allowance toward belief in a transformative experience (which millions of Christians would attest to ) and if one advocates throwing the characters away and living life the same way an atheist would, I could see the connection. I have had some really good Christians--selfless, giving, and having read the Bible--tell me that the key to it all is submission to Jesus...whom YOU advocate "throwing away". So what if you went through the rituals of an established chapter of Christianity? You see it all as symbolic mythos anyway. And by claiming that such a God is evil, you prove that you don't understand the fact that Christianity is not all about what YOU do...its about what He did and about how YOU respond to what He did.

If you claim that God is the creator of all that is, seen and unseen and that God possess foreknowledge then yes, that God is evil. If God creates something foreknown to be damned then that is truly evil unless you can provide some justification for that act of God. Then perhaps you can support that assertions with something more than the usual dogma.Edited by jar, : fix sub-title

So your major beef with the doctrine of salvation from original sin is that it makes some of us feel exclusive? This then means that you believe that God, if God exists, is inclusive regarding salvation. That all God's chillun get saved, providing them relief from damnation, yet that they are then expected to become responsible, adopt an honor system, and DO their best. Nothing else needed. No transformation. In fact, God will likely let everyone into Heaven who at least made a decent effort to put in work for others. Is that a fair summation?

No Phat and by know you really should have a good idea of my position so I have to wonder why you are always misrepresenting what I say.The problem with the snake-oil sold as Original Sin is that there is no evidence in the Bible of Original Sin. But it's an easy sales job and also makes it easy to sell the Get Outta Original Sin card. No Phat, that is something of a perversion of the scenario that the Bible has the Jesus character outlining and anything I have ever posted. It's not my idea, it's what the Bible says Jesus described. The difference is that Jesus says that first they are expected to become responsible, adopt an honor system, and DO their best for others. It is on what they do that they are judged. And yes, Jesus makes no mention of whether there is any transformation or even any belief.Do you remember me mentioning passages from Matthew and Luke or do I need to yet again quote them for you?Have you ever read the Bible Phat?

You keep diminishing the power of your God. He's not supposed to be just any old father who has no control over what happens to His children, is He? If there's something He can't control, He's weak. If there's something He can control and chooses not to, He's responsible.