Charismatic Chaos

Do you really need to ask that? Why would god need angels? More stupidly, why create a bad one? This is so childish ... why would an angel in heaven - the most perfect and happiest place imaginable - want to change anything? Don't you think it possible that this is just all anthropomorphised? Can't you see that it's just a folk myth? There's nothing god-like about any of this stuff. It's all totally human.

Well according to the Winchester gospels, god needed help to imprison his sister the darkness. Lucifer then became corrupt because of the mark that held the darkness, the same mark that was then given to Cain.

Ah, don't tell me he made a ring to bind the darkness but lost it and it was found by a hobbit with big hairy toes

Thats the Tolkiens gospels, im talking about the Winchester gospels, the new new testament.

Every thought of our imagination is human. Take Star Trek. It inspired a generation of scientists, even though it was a fantasy. If anyone can imagine a Klingon they can surely imagine a Spirit Being who sends an anthropomorphized rep to the planet. You need to stop convincing yourself that its simply mythological. Much better than thinking we have just evolved as animals out for a long generational trek to do our best at becoming of higher intelligence by rejecting anything our little science kits cant prove. This universe and its possibilities are so much greater than our capacity to conceive of. And dont forget...without imagination, half of the inventions would never have yet become reality.

Yes Phat, they can and did imagine a Spirit Being, and talking snakes, angels and devils, war in heavens etc etc etc.That's the point, it's all obviously human imagination, mystical thinking and story telling. There's nothing remotely god-like about any of it.

That's perfectly silly. The Bible does not read like fiction, it reads like history. As C.S. Lewis, who taught literature at Oxford I believe, pointed out.

It reads exactly like fiction. Exactly. There's nothing in the bible that *couldn't* have been written by people alive at the time it was written.

The only people to question that statement are the folk like you Phat that insist all those Spirit Beings were more than just the products of human imagination. Why?

Call it intuition. I realize that your argument is that the evidence shows this to be the likely case. This scenario...namely that humans are powerless without Gods communion, is to you the snake oil of the apologists. Essentially, you look at the lesson as God showing us what we can do by living as Jesus lived, yet providing no help. Perhaps you have intuitively believed as this scrip would suggest: Implying that we have the ability (as humans) to resist sin.(Our carnal nature of pride, greed, and lust)Star Trek, a fantasy that inspired a generation of future scientists, was a story where humans tried to do their best and overcame many seemingly insurmountable challenges without the help of any God. I do not have an optimistic outlook on the future of humanity without God. The bottom line is that we collectively need further lessons. Seeing us as simply evolving animals with no help from God is depressing. I fear we will fail. Perhaps this shows one of my own human flaws---that I have always relied on help my entire life to get out of the worst jams---many of which I myself created. Perhaps I would have been better off if nobody ever helped me.

Says who? You? Seemed pretty optimistic to me. For a start there *was* a future, unlike your lots persistent claim that the end of the world is nigh and daily doom laden prophesies. They always put things right and win the day. Says who? You? To you. More doom and whinging. For god's sake Phat get a grip.

Again you simply fall back on word salad Phat and avoid responding to what others actually say. The why was my question to your posts quoted below. Is it intuition really Phat or simply a personal wish? But stop and look at reality.We have the God given ability to recognize right from wrong. Your own quote from Genesis says that we have the God given ability to do right rather than wrong.Remember the guy named Paul.We are charged to fight the GOOD fight. Win or lose, fight the GOOD fight.We are charged to Run the race. Win or lose, run the race.We have the knowledge today to at least determine factually, based on real evidence, what the problems are today.We have the power through the vote to tell our representatives at all levels that they must address those problems.At the local level we need to vote for those representatives that address the local issues of hunger and safety and shelter and basic necessities. If they cannot present concrete plans to address those issues then don't vote for them. If they get elected but do not fulfill their commitments, recall them and throw them away.At the State level address the regional issues. Make the representatives present their program to encourage switching to Green Energy rather than Fossil Fuels. Make them address zoning laws that will encourage folk to move away from areas susceptible to predictable disasters or to build in a fashion to mitigate losses from fire, flood, mud, rock or snow slide, rising sea levels or beach erosion. Set a tax incentive plan to encourage the move from fossil energy systems to renewable energy systems.At the National level do the same. Demand representatives that will work to bring the US health care system up to at least the international average. Demand Federal action to address climate change, the wealth gap, a progressive taxation system, long term stability of Social Security and Health Care and again, encourage the transition from fossil fuels to renewable energy.Phat, we can see what needs to be done and where it needs to be done. Jesus commanded us to address those very issues and as Christians we are charged to at least try to fight the Good fight, Run the race.

Yea, who ever could think surviving in whales, breeding spotted goats by having them mate in front of a bush or curing your house of leprosy by sprinkling it with pigeon blood could be fiction, its pure historic and scientific fact.

You contradict yourself. Then why is your concept of it better than a non-believer's?

You like to throw in that word "collectively". I wonder why, since you're the one who believes that God communes with you individually. The lesson that you should be taking from that is that there is help. We do do things collectively, i.e. not relying on God.