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Author | Topic: Testing The Christian Apologists | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Phat, you have attributed a quote to me that is not mine. Please correct. Thanks.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Theo writes: No, and I don't really care to look. Would you argue, however, that Christians have a worse track record than atheists? Or are we all the same?
Can you name any major atheist pundit that has misrepresented their credentials?He probably did justify the titles, in hid own mind, but he was consciously misrepresenting himself and scamming people. Why is it so easy for Christians to forgive one another and so hard for you?
Ravi is a liar, a cheat and a scoundrel. What bothers me more is that now you trust nobody from RZIM. Do you think that all Christian apologists are in the same boat, as jar does?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction . "~Thugpreacha You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That isn't the topic.
But my bigger question at the moment is whether the Christian Nationalists can handle being broke. Phat writes:
I'd rather discuss the topic.
But lets you and i discuss some of the basic dogma that is common in Christian apologetics. Phat writes:
I don't make any claim. I just don't see anywhere where Jesus listed exceptions.
Sell all that you have and give to the poor.--You claim that this message is for everybody. Am I right? Phat writes:
As I've told you before, I don't even believe that Jesus existed. Why would I follow His advice any more than I would follow the Fred Flintstone's advice? I'm just wondering why you claim to believe in Him yet you ridicule His advice.
... please show us that you are well on your way to selling everything. Phat writes:
My heart is busy pumping blood right now. If Jesus was in there, I'd probably need to have Him surgically removed.
Accept Jesus into your heart. -- Phat writes:
The "spirit" is a function of mind. A fragment of underdone potato can tamper with Scrooge's mind and make him "see" spirits but otherwise there's no "war". The flesh wars against the Spirit. But the topic is Testing the Christian Apologists. Are you admitting that they've failed the test?"If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
How can I respond to their assumptions if you won't bring them here? I am curious how ringo responds to common apologetic assumptions that we Christians believe in."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: OK lets start with a common one:
How can I respond to their assumptions if you won't bring them here?4 Spiritual Laws This is a common apologetic. It is scriptural. Now go ahead and trash it---its what you do. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction . "~Thugpreacha You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
The basic teaching is shown in this diagram. I have always told you that we humans seek to deify ourselves and be on the throne. This is where I must have gotten that concept.
Phat writes: Whereupon ringo artfully dodges the responsibility that he hoists upon me: ... please show us that you are well on your way to selling everything....As I've told you before, I don't even believe that Jesus existed. Why would I follow His advice any more than I would follow Fred Flintstone's advice? I'm just wondering why you claim to believe in Him yet you ridicule His advice. Because I'm human. We were created with the freedom to rebel. Jesus is the antidote to satan. Satan basically created himself (evil) by having the freedom to disobey the Boss. Granted that God created a freewilled Lucifer but God did not *make* him rebel. Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction . "~Thugpreacha You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
SHEEESH Phat.
Did you even read that crap? I mean that is simply hilarious that ANYONE could read shuch utter crap without laughing. There is absolutely nothing there but selling the BIG con, no value, no meaning, no charge, no morality, nothing but CON!
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
Why is it so easy for Christians to forgive one another and so hard for you?
This has nothing to do with forgiving. I have nothing to forgive him for. I am just stating know admitted facts. He is a liar, a cheat and a scoundrel. You yourself agree he is a liar If you feel the need to "forgive" by all means forgive. I am not even sure what that means in this context. I am just stating facts.
What bothers me more is that now you trust nobody from RZIM.
I never trusted them, but there is plenty of evidence why my reasoning is justified. Do you not feel it is odd that Abdu Murray says nothing about his past? Do you not feel it is odd that he is just a dude with no actual training telling you what your beliefs should be? Does that same normal?
Do you think that all Christian apologists are in the same boat, as jar does?
Yup. Have never been shown one that isn't a liar and a grifter. You do realize that they do it for the money don't you? The know no more and believe no more than you. They are just better sales people.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
jar writes: The value is having Christ accept you. no value, no meaning, no charge, no morality, nothing but CON!The morality should also stem from Him to us, but Baughman claims that this isnt happening. Steve Baughman,from his book writes: Thus we have an argument there.
Thoughtful readers will spare me the Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven straw man. No skeptic worth her salt considers the absence of perfect Christians to be evidence against the truth of the religion. The claim is, rather, that if Christianity were true, Christians would be noticeably different around the things that matter, like money and integrity in business. They aren’t. Therefore, . . . Baughman, Steve. Cover-Up in the Kingdom: Phone Sex, Lies, And God's Great Apologist, Ravi Zacharias . BookBaby. Kindle Edition.no charge This really is it. The old Prep School Honor System Writ Large. I won't argue. We all can always do more. Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction . "~Thugpreacha You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
Yeah. Wow. This is what religion has devolved to? Carny people running shell games?
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: The value is having Christ accept you. Another totally content-less bumper sticker. Phat why do you keep posting silly stuff like that?
Phat writes: The morality should also stem from Him to us, but Baughman claims that this isnt happening. No Phat, the morality can only be within you. But again, there is no evidence that Christians are more moral than any other segment of any population and lots of evidence that the so called Christian leaders and Apologists are far less moral than the average citizen.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Yeah, all of that is just Bill Bright, the guy that pushed the Campus Crusade generation. It was simply bullshit then and is simply bullshit still.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
What part of "bring it here" do you not understand? OK lets start with a common one:4 Spiritual Laws Bring it here. Explain it in your own words. I've asked you to do that many, many times."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Besides being unreadable, that diagram explains nothing. It's just a reiteration of your empty belief. Where's the scripture to back it up?
The basic teaching is shown in this diagram. Phat writes:
Don't lie about me. I have never told you what you should do. I have only told you what Jesus told you to do.
Whereupon ringo artfully dodges the responsibility that he hoists upon me: Phat writes:
That's not an excuse for you to rebel against Jesus' teachings and then claim to "believe in Him".
We were created with the freedom to rebel. Phat writes:
Then why don't you follow Him? Jesus is the antidote to satan."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: I'll be honest with you. If Jesus really ment those specific words "sell all you have: for every Christian, I would not follow Him. You put me in the hot seat and I had to be honest. My faith must surely be weak, as is the faith of many "professors". Apologists indeed do get us off the hook, but then we are faced with answering the charges that we have made up our own religion. That's not an excuse for you to rebel against Jesus' teachings and then claim to "believe in Him". Meanwhile, church armed guards are on the news saying that they "killed pure evil" by taking out a gunman in church with a shot to the head. We truly live in crazy times. My jury is currently out again---I am considering much of the new information I have received. Oh, and about Ravi: I read the entire book by atheist lawyer Richard Baughman. I conclude that while Ravi was deceptive, and was in fact guilty of initial lies and coverup, I conclude that the author of the book seemed to have a definite agenda of prosecuting Ravi fully and publically no matter the cost. Christians forgive their brothers and sisters and an indictment is not a forever thing. Secular people are tougher on people who lie or harm others, never again giving them an opportunity to repent or be redeemed. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction . "~Thugpreacha You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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