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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2387 of 3207 (869584)
01-02-2020 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 2386 by PaulK
01-02-2020 1:32 PM


Re: Unbelievers do not have the capacity to understand spiritual things
Of course God isn't subject to the judgments of the UN but the UN is subject to God's judgments. Human beings can't exercise such judgments, only God can. All you are doing is stating your opinion again, which means nothing.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2386 by PaulK, posted 01-02-2020 1:32 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2389 by PaulK, posted 01-02-2020 1:56 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 2398 by jar, posted 01-02-2020 4:41 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2390 of 3207 (869593)
01-02-2020 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 2388 by Stile
01-02-2020 1:52 PM


Re: Unbelievers do not have the capacity to understand spiritual things
What exactly do you have in mind about what can be learned from such events as "reality" as opposed to God's judgments? Of course you can learn from all such things but it's a different kind of knowledge, and to understand them as God's judgments requires a different kind of discernment. "Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom" points to this kind of knowledge, the knowledge that "the wages of sin is death" which is what the Fall brought into the world, death and disease and all kinds of disasters. It's not that we can't learn practical things for dealing with such events, and I regard those as God's mercies, but the events themselves are produced by the Moral Law. And I also think the system of Karma in Hinduism and Buddhism is a roughly intuited understanding of that law. THAT is the spiritual reality that underlies mere physical reality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2388 by Stile, posted 01-02-2020 1:52 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2391 by Stile, posted 01-02-2020 2:28 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2392 of 3207 (869601)
01-02-2020 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 2391 by Stile
01-02-2020 2:28 PM


Re: Unbelievers do not have the capacity to understand spiritual things
What you could learn from a disaster purely physically is how to strengthen the structure of say a bridge that collapsed, but in terms of God's judgment you could learn that the nation is under judgment and change laws to conform to God's law. In our day and age we won't learn that of course, because it might mean learning such a thing as that murdering millions of unborn babies is bringing disaster down on us. Etc.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2391 by Stile, posted 01-02-2020 2:28 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2393 by Stile, posted 01-02-2020 3:03 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2394 of 3207 (869613)
01-02-2020 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 2393 by Stile
01-02-2020 3:03 PM


Re: Unbelievers do not have the capacity to understand spiritual things
It would have been learned by now? Excuse me while I try to get up from the floor. With my arthritis this may take a while, not to mention that laughing interferes with the effort.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2393 by Stile, posted 01-02-2020 3:03 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2395 by Stile, posted 01-02-2020 3:36 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2396 of 3207 (869631)
01-02-2020 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 2395 by Stile
01-02-2020 3:36 PM


Re: Unbelievers do not have the capacity to understand spiritual things
And when it doesn't work - it fails.
Yes, so when infrastructure falls apart, when planes crash from bad design, when the WTC is attacked and the buildings fall down, when we have a civil war as we did, when our borders are wide open so anyone can come in for any reason, when enemies are able to get hold of our secrets, oh name it there are all kinds of ways things can go wrong, a whole bunch of them spelled out in the books of Deuteronomy and Leviticus too which we haven't yet experienced but very well may -- anyway yes if we have such failures you think we'll explain them in terms of God's judgments? Really?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2395 by Stile, posted 01-02-2020 3:36 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2399 of 3207 (869640)
01-02-2020 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 2398 by jar
01-02-2020 4:41 PM


Re: Once again Faith shows she does not believe what the Bible actaully says.It is ve
It is very unpleasant to be lied about.

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 Message 2398 by jar, posted 01-02-2020 4:41 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2403 of 3207 (869650)
01-03-2020 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 2402 by PaulK
01-03-2020 1:13 AM


Judgment is just punishment, murder is unjust killing.
Genocide means murder, it means UNJUST killing, I don't care who came up with the definition. God doesn't commit murder, He brings about judgment for sin. Therefore the attempt to define what God does in the terms given by the UN is upside down and backwards. It's similar to how people these days may protest the just execution of criminals as if THAT was murder instead of justice. People just don't know how to think any more.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2402 by PaulK, posted 01-03-2020 1:13 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2404 by Tangle, posted 01-03-2020 10:50 AM Faith has replied
 Message 2405 by PaulK, posted 01-03-2020 10:52 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 2408 by ringo, posted 01-03-2020 11:09 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 2406 of 3207 (869654)
01-03-2020 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 2404 by Tangle
01-03-2020 10:50 AM


Re: Judgment is just punishment, murder is unjust killing.
Oh dear oh dear, mad medieval pope? But you do think like that if you actually think God's judgments are murder. Crazy as a medieval pope. Enlightened reason gone gone gone.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2404 by Tangle, posted 01-03-2020 10:50 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2407 by jar, posted 01-03-2020 10:57 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2409 of 3207 (869660)
01-03-2020 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 2408 by ringo
01-03-2020 11:09 AM


Re: Judgment is just punishment, murder is unjust killing.
How can you say such things? You don't have any fear of lying about God?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2408 by ringo, posted 01-03-2020 11:09 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2410 by ringo, posted 01-03-2020 11:31 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2426 of 3207 (869714)
01-04-2020 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 2421 by Sarah Bellum
01-04-2020 4:11 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
The way Christianity gets subsumed under the evil actions of its enemies makes conversation difficult.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2421 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-04-2020 4:11 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2427 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-05-2020 11:13 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 2467 of 3207 (870155)
01-13-2020 5:29 AM
Reply to: Message 2460 by Sarah Bellum
01-11-2020 7:56 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Sarah B writes:
Tangle writes:
But the existence of rational arguments for something doesn't make that something true
But the point is that the arguments aren't rational, they are all pure wish-fulfillment or a vague sort of "How could all this wondrous etc. etc. etc. without a designer?" It's emotional, not logical.
Are you talking about actual real arguments here or what? I really don't know what you're talking about although maybe I just haven't been following the thread well enough. In my own case I wasn't argued into belief, I came to understand that I had to believe what witnesses told us about phenomena that could only be attributed to a universal intelligence or personal God. I wasn't inclined to dismiss witness evidence out of hand as so many are, however, simply because I myself never experienced what they claimed to experience. Of course I expected it would need to be put to a test but I don't think of people as that crazy or stupid that they just go around making stuff up although so many here seem to think that about their fellow human beings.
Is believing what people tell you about what they claim to have experienced irrational? Perhaps so, I'd need to think about it more, but we arrive at many of our convictions by irrational processes. Not everything can be substantiated rationally or scientifically.
Witnesses to miracles are reported abundantly in both the Old and New Testaments, all kinds of miracles including people brought back to life through faith in the Creator God who made us all. If I hadn't believed in the credibility of those witnesses I guess I couldn't have become a Christian, and if you just dismiss it all as delusional you cut yourself off from that belief. is this argument? There is certainly great wondrousness to someone who has always thought only in terms of this physical universe as all there is and all there ever will be; and there may certainly be an element of wish fulfillment involved, but you might keep in mind that giving up sin is required of us and that is not easy and a lot of us fail at it many times. It costs to be a believer in other words. Not like "going to heaven on beds of flowery ease" as it's been put, but giving up some things that in some cases may cost us a lot of happiness. I lost many friends. It's hard to lose friends. I know Christians who went back to marriages they'd ended by divorce, understanding that God hates divorce. I know people who confessed to crimes and took punishment for them, certainly made restitution where possible. Not the simple thing you seem to be imagining.
But anyway....
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2460 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-11-2020 7:56 AM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2470 by Sarah Bellum, posted 04-10-2020 8:59 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2471 of 3207 (874826)
04-10-2020 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 2470 by Sarah Bellum
04-10-2020 8:59 PM


Divorce
There's no fancy theology or tradition implied. Jesus is quoted in the Bible as saying "God hates divorce."
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2470 by Sarah Bellum, posted 04-10-2020 8:59 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2474 by Sarah Bellum, posted 04-10-2020 9:43 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2476 of 3207 (874844)
04-10-2020 11:45 PM
Reply to: Message 2474 by Sarah Bellum
04-10-2020 9:43 PM


Re: Divorce
Jesus said that Moses loosened the Law on divorce because of the hardness of heart he found in the Israelite men. Commentaries described them as divorcing their wives for all kinds of trivial reasons, like how they burned the food and so on. The Law itself is still "God hates divorce" despite Moses' loosening of it for the sake of accommodating a strong if bad habit, presumably to keep the peace or something along those lines.
There is plenty of argument about possible acceptable reasons for divorce and certainly unfaithfulness ("fornication") is often considered a good reason. Some argue even against that, however. But "God hates divorce" stands pretty much as the bottom line in all cases. Unfortunately the churches have joined the culture in allowing easy divorce, being far more lenient than even Moses was. I think most churches go way too far these days. The divorce statistic for Christians is indistinguishable from that for nonChristians.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2474 by Sarah Bellum, posted 04-10-2020 9:43 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2481 by Sarah Bellum, posted 04-11-2020 9:29 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2477 of 3207 (874845)
04-10-2020 11:49 PM
Reply to: Message 2475 by dwise1
04-10-2020 10:46 PM


Re: Divorce
Women could not divorce their husbands in the time of Moses. They couldn't do much of anything in the time of Moses.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2475 by dwise1, posted 04-10-2020 10:46 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2478 by frako, posted 04-11-2020 12:37 AM Faith has replied
 Message 2479 by dwise1, posted 04-11-2020 1:25 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 2480 of 3207 (874868)
04-11-2020 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 2478 by frako
04-11-2020 12:37 AM


Re: Divorce
I think I swent too far in my own comment. Women couldn't divorce their husbands in Moses' time, and didn't have many of the rights men had, but there are some very strong women in the Bible, and some very loving relationships between spouses too. It's not always the harsh "chattel" idea that is so familiar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2478 by frako, posted 04-11-2020 12:37 AM frako has not replied

  
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