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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 2362 of 3207 (869535)
01-01-2020 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 2361 by mike the wiz
01-01-2020 8:02 AM


Re: Unbelievers do not have the capacity to understand spiritual things
MTW writes:
But if that is all the bible is, then there is no foundation for any claim. You can then make the bible mean anything. So what are you a believer in?
Mike, you are not new here. I have explained many times what I believe. And yes, all of the evidence shows that not only can you make the Bible mean anything, every Chapter of Club Christian makes the Bible mean what THEY want it to mean. In addition, every Canon makes the Bible contain a whole different set of stories, the shortest even excludes all of the New Testament and much of the Old Testament while the largest includes over 80 different books.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 2361 by mike the wiz, posted 01-01-2020 8:02 AM mike the wiz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2364 by Phat, posted 01-01-2020 10:18 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 2365 of 3207 (869543)
01-01-2020 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 2364 by Phat
01-01-2020 10:18 AM


Re: Unbelievers do not have the capacity to understand spiritual things
Phat writes:
Was the Apostle Paul, in your mind, part of the subgroup of "apologist" hucksters?
The evidence shows that if the Bible is accurate then at least at times he definitely was an Apologist Huckster.
Phat writes:
Scientifically speaking, do you see a difference between applying evidence-based thinking to refute the Flood(Times Square BottleNeck Argument) which impressed me, by the way, and evidence-based thinking on human nature, belief, and inspired scripture as well as "inspired Christians"?
That's pretty much just word salad Phat. We can never know what others believe beyond the clues that are evidence based. Is there be any reason to doubt that they believe what they claim to believe? Human nature is subject to evidence based analysis and as a species we have made great strides in understanding human nature.
But I see no evidence that any scripture is inspired by anything other than the authors beliefs.
But all writings (and that is all the term scripture really means) can provide insight or knowledge or data.
Remember, none of the material found in any versions of the various Canons was writing to become part of "The Bible". All of the Bibles are anthologies of anthologies and so reflect the choices and decisions often a committee made for a wide range of reasons, most often based on politics or power or control.
As to "inspired Christians" all the evidence shows that any inspiration is the direct product of their imagination.
And because the Bible is not some actual thing but rather only what some Chapter of Club Christian decides to declare as authoritative and each individual within each Chapter of Club Christian either accepts that the Bible declared authoritative in their Chapter of Club Christian actually says what is written or conversely accepts that what is authoritative is what our pet Apologists says it really means regardless of what is actually written, it seems that we really do create God and the Bible in our own image.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 2398 of 3207 (869638)
01-02-2020 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 2387 by Faith
01-02-2020 1:40 PM


Once again Faith shows she does not believe what the Bible actaully says.
Faith writes:
Of course God isn't subject to the judgments of the UN but the UN is subject to God's judgments. Human beings can't exercise such judgments, only God can.
Yet the Bible clearly shows that humans can and in fact should judge God when God is acting or going to act immorally. And Faith, we have been over this many, many, many, many, many, many times.
Genesis 18:22-33 Faith. Have you ever actually read the Bible Faith?
quote:
22Then the men turned away from there and went toward Sodom, but Abraham still stood before the Lord. 23And Abraham came near and said, Would You also destroy the righteous with the wicked? 24Suppose there were fifty righteous within the city; would You also destroy the place and not spare it for the fifty righteous that were in it? 25Far be it from You to do such a thing as this, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous should be as the wicked; far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
26So the Lord said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.
27Then Abraham answered and said, Indeed now, I who am but dust and ashes have taken it upon myself to speak to the Lord: 28Suppose there were five less than the fifty righteous; would You destroy all of the city for lack of five?
So He said, If I find there forty-five, I will not destroy it.
29And he spoke to Him yet again and said, Suppose there should be forty found there?
So He said, I will not do it for the sake of forty.
30Then he said, Let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Suppose thirty should be found there?
So He said, I will not do it if I find thirty there.
31And he said, Indeed now, I have taken it upon myself to speak to the Lord: Suppose twenty should be found there?
So He said, I will not destroy it for the sake of twenty.
32Then he said, Let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak but once more: Suppose ten should be found there?
And He said, I will not destroy it for the sake of ten. 33So the Lord went His way as soon as He had finished speaking with Abraham; and Abraham returned to his place.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2387 by Faith, posted 01-02-2020 1:40 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2399 by Faith, posted 01-02-2020 5:13 PM jar has seen this message but not replied
 Message 2400 by Phat, posted 01-02-2020 6:19 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 2401 of 3207 (869643)
01-02-2020 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 2400 by Phat
01-02-2020 6:19 PM


Re: Once again Faith shows she does not believe what the Bible actaully says.
Phat writes:
Your example is unclear. Abraham knew the Lord.
Actually Phat, the story is very clear. Where in the story is there any evidence that Abe was not questioning God's behavior and judging God's behavior?
Once again, you are inserting the God made in YOUR image into the story to replace the God described by the author.
I understand you have problems seeing God through the eyes of the author BUT reality is that the author had no issue with an unjust, despotic, even immoral God.
Abe is humble before someone who has the power to simply kill him if that character so decides just like any war lord or king or prince of the period.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2400 by Phat, posted 01-02-2020 6:19 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2411 by Phat, posted 01-03-2020 12:10 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 2407 of 3207 (869655)
01-03-2020 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 2406 by Faith
01-03-2020 10:53 AM


Re: Judgment is just punishment, murder is unjust killing.
Faith writes:
But you do think like that if you actually think God's judgments are murder.
Absolutely. Almost all of the examples found in the Bible are murder. But wait...there's more. In the Exodus fable it is not simply murder but premeditated murder with malice of forethought.
Have you ever actually read the Bible Faith?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 2412 of 3207 (869667)
01-03-2020 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 2411 by Phat
01-03-2020 12:10 PM


Re: Who Wrote Genesis?
All of the evidence shows that there was no single author of Genesis.
It really is that simple Phat.
No one has a clue who the authors actually were but we can know a few things for sure; for example that the author or recorder of Genesis 1 lived far after the authors or recorders of the rest of Genesis.
The critical thinking unbiased writers do not allow human wisdom to define and frame the Bible, rather they allow the actual text as well as verifiable evidence to define the Bible.
It's the Apologists who rely on not just "Human" wisdom but in reality their own biased beliefs to define and frame the Bible. They create God and Bible in their own image.
Phat writes:
Once you start examining the Bible from a human centrist perspective, the inerrancy wears off and the book is exposed as written by fallible humans and even a fallible God character.
Almost. Let me correct that for you.
Once you start examining the Bible based on what is actually written, on the actual history of the area and times when the stories were written and the reality of the processes that created the Canon(s), the inerrancy wears off and the Bible is exposed as written by fallible humans and that it even depicts a fallible and often horrific God character.
Edited by jar, : the ----> theY

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2411 by Phat, posted 01-03-2020 12:10 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2415 by Phat, posted 01-03-2020 10:37 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 2418 of 3207 (869697)
01-04-2020 8:41 AM
Reply to: Message 2415 by Phat
01-03-2020 10:37 PM


Re: Who Wrote Genesis?
Phat writes:
All that you could possibly believe in is an unknown God who is unlike anything described in any human literature and who likely does not prefer or cherish humans over any other universal species. What kind of believer is that? And what kind of God? Certainly not one relateable tp us.
It is a believer who believes that there really is or was a GOD who was the creator of all that is, seen and unseen.
Think Phat. Have you ever read the Bible? The God in Genesis 1 is such a critter, one who creates simply by will, who never hesitates, who is never unsure and who looks on all that was created and finds it all good BUT who also has absolutely no contact with the creation.
The idea is really not all that far fetched or unusual.
You what it seems to be preferred over everything else and so create a God in YOUR image.
I believe GOD exists but am honest enough to admit that all the evidence shows it is not any of the God(s) or god(s) described in any human literature. They are all just the creation of other humans.
And we still have no clue who wrote Genesis.
Phat writes:
Again, this supports my claim that you may as well claim to be a secular humanist and quit trying to plant your flag in both camps.
Yet the reality is that I am a member of a recognized Chapter of Club Christian. I am a Christian and thus also the theist and not secular. But remember Jesus was never a Christian but the writings show him as a humanist.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 2424 of 3207 (869711)
01-04-2020 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 2423 by Phat
01-04-2020 4:54 PM


yet look at the Deity you create?
Phat writes:
A Deity by definition need not fit our terms of rationality.
Yet look at the deity you create, one that not just favors humans over other creation but favors you over other humans. One that is in communion with you even though you admit there is no way to really know that you are in communion with anything other than your own fears and desires.
True, the Deity you create does not fit any terms of reason, logic, rationality or reality but it does fit your own needs and desires.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 2564 of 3207 (881002)
08-16-2020 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 2563 by Phat
08-16-2020 10:29 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Yellow is a shade of banana might make more sense after we die.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2563 by Phat, posted 08-16-2020 10:29 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2565 by Phat, posted 08-16-2020 10:53 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 2566 of 3207 (881009)
08-16-2020 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 2565 by Phat
08-16-2020 10:53 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
But what you posted is no different than what I posted.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2565 by Phat, posted 08-16-2020 10:53 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2567 by Phat, posted 08-16-2020 2:25 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 2637 of 3207 (881392)
08-23-2020 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 2636 by ringo
08-23-2020 10:08 AM


Re: After We Die

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 2636 by ringo, posted 08-23-2020 10:08 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 2645 of 3207 (881466)
08-24-2020 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 2644 by Phat
08-24-2020 4:05 PM


Think Phat. Try it. You'll like it.
Phat writes:
I think and believe that a WHO created the universe and defines reality whereas you believe that a WHAT(Logic and evidence defined by humans) created all that is real and actual.
Think Phat. Please, stop and actually think before you post stuff this silly.
None of use think that Logic or evidence ever created anything.
Do you even have a clue what the words logic and evidence even mean?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2644 by Phat, posted 08-24-2020 4:05 PM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 2652 of 3207 (881666)
08-27-2020 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 2651 by Phat
08-27-2020 8:34 AM


Re: WHO WHAT WHEN and WHERE
Phat, Phat, Phat.
"Who" says that? "Scripture" doesn't say anything. Scripture is something created by some author.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2651 by Phat, posted 08-27-2020 8:34 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2653 by Phat, posted 08-27-2020 9:33 AM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 2666 of 3207 (881773)
08-30-2020 7:22 AM
Reply to: Message 2665 by Raphael
08-30-2020 12:53 AM


Re: WHO WHAT WHEN and WHERE
Raph writes:
Over the years the phrase "The Word" has entered the many forms of "Christianeese" terminology that Christians use without thinking.
Exactly. It is a sign of Christians turning their brains off.
Edited by jar, : fix quote

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 2665 by Raphael, posted 08-30-2020 12:53 AM Raphael has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2667 by Phat, posted 08-30-2020 10:30 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 2668 of 3207 (881776)
08-30-2020 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 2667 by Phat
08-30-2020 10:30 AM


Re: WORD UP: What does the phrase mean in the Gospel Of John 1:1---->
Phat writes:
So when your brain is turned on, do you agree with ringo that calling Jesus "The Word" is silly? Or do you understand why the majority of us believe that Jesus was in fact with GOD and was GOD?
I try not to turn my brain off and still see those who think John 1:1 refers to Jesus is silly. To think that was how the author of the Gospel of John meant it to be taken is even sillier.
I understand lots of folk believe very very very silly stuff because they do turn their brains off and in fact check them at the door. Those who agree with you are exactly those who simply denigrate and misrepresent the Bible while claiming to be "Biblical Christians". CCoI fur sur!

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2667 by Phat, posted 08-30-2020 10:30 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2669 by Phat, posted 08-30-2020 10:54 AM jar has replied

  
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