Understanding through Discussion

Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 78 (8965 total)
43 online now:
PaulK (1 member, 42 visitors)
Newest Member: javier martinez
Post Volume: Total: 873,090 Year: 4,838/23,288 Month: 1,743/1,286 Week: 57/353 Day: 4/53 Hour: 0/0

Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Author Topic:   Did the Flood really happen?
Posts: 20627
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9

Message 1591 of 1591 (869742)
01-05-2020 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1578 by Faith
01-04-2020 8:49 PM

Re: Layers build slowly over time ... lots of time
If a rock replaces either a landscape or a waterscape, ...

It's not rock at the time, it is sediment, different types of sediment depending on the deposition environment, but gradually accumulating sediment.

... whether it takes overnight or a million years, it displaces living things. ...

Have you ever walked in a snowstorm? As you walk you keep stepping on the top surface of the snow.

... They die. ...

In the same way things die in the world today -- old age, disease, predation -- but there are also survivors that live, adapting to the new surface just as a person walking in a snowstorm adapts to the new surface.

Individuals die, but the population does not go extinct. Generation by generation they adapt to the changing surface.

Animal life-forms adapt to the new surface by walking on it and starting new animal growth.

Plant life-forms adapt to the new surface by growing up and starting new plant growth.

This is why we find fossils of Brachiopods with their stalks attached to shells of older Brachiopods.

And all life forms can continue to reproduce ... during periods of normal deposition over time, such as what we experience today. It certainly is not burying people and plants and animals in most sectors of the earth

... They do not pass on their genes let alone evolve into something else.

All life forms do continue to reproduce and pass on their genes.

It is only in special cases where the rate of deposition is too large to adapt to it that there are mass killings -- such as when Vesuvius erupted and buried Pompeii, but those are special cases.

Message 1579 replies:

First result, if there was anything living the aquarium when you started this process, it died long before it was completely "full of wet dirt."

Why? You added a handful of dirt to the aquarium, how does that affect what is living inside? Would goldfish just fall down dead? Would seaweed just stop living? No they wouldn't, and neither is the ongoing life on the earth killed off by the current depositions occurring today.

What effect would a second handful of dirt make? Answers with details Faith, not assertions.

Note that this experiment has been carried out many times and it doesn't result in the death of all living things in the tank. Much of it escapes with the water overflowing out of the tank (or ponds), other life forms adapt. Some die, but reproduce beforehand and the offspring survive -- new plant life sets roots into the new layers for instance.

The ecological succession of a pond to a bog to a meadow is due to the accumulation of silts and sands in the pond over time, the life adapts.

What on earth do you think you are trying to prove by this? My point has been that the sediment/rock will DISPLACE LIVING THINGS in this "time period" whether landscape or marinescape, and obviously that is exactly what would happen. ...

But not the dead things that died of old age, disease or predation, their remnants would be gradually buried by the accumulating sediments and become fossils, preserving a record of life at that point in time of deposition/sedimentation.

Yes, generation by generation the living species would adapt to the new surface, living, surviving, reproducing, and as the individuals die of old age, disease or predation, their remnants would be gradually buried by the accumulating sediments, preserving a record of life at that point in time of deposition/sedimentation. One that is slightly different from the ones below, as we have seen from studying the evidence.

Yes, they get "displaced" generation by generation by generation, gradually upward, to live, survive, and breed on a new surface made by the deposition of sediment, leaving behind the remnants of those that died, gradually being buried by the sediment. Just as you can continue to walk on the new surface of snow in a snowstorm, and if you drop something it gets buried by the snow, your steps get buried, but you are still walking on top, on the surface environment, you are still living.

... They'd get buried and possibly fossilize; but they'd no longer be living and passing on their genes.

Such is the case for all living things even today, when you die you no longer pass on your genes, but that doesn't mean that you never have does it? Individuals in each generation survives, reproduces and dies while succeeding generations continue to survive and reproduce, generation after generation. Adapting to the new environment as they do.

Do you know what "Marine Snow" is?

In the deep ocean, marine snow is a continuous shower of mostly organic detritus falling from the upper layers of the water column. It is a significant means of exporting energy from the light-rich photic zone to the aphotic zone below which is referred to as the biological pump. Export production is the amount of organic matter produced in the ocean by primary production that is not recycled (remineralised) before it sinks into the aphotic zone. Because of the role of export production in the ocean's biological pump, it is typically measured in units of carbon (e.g. mg C m−2 d−1).The term was first coined by the explorer William Beebe as he observed it from his bathysphere. As the origin of marine snow lies in activities within the productive photic zone, the prevalence of marine snow changes with seasonal fluctuations in photosynthetic activity and ocean currents. Marine snow can be an important food source for organisms living in the aphotic zone, particularly for organisms which live very deep in the water column.

Do you remember the Pelagic/Calcareous (Coccolith/Foram) Ooze from Walther's Law diagrams? That is the accumulation of Marine Snow over time. It settles very slowly compared to the other sediments.

This Walther's Law image also shows the sediments sorted by grain size with the largest grain sediments at the shore edge and the finest grain size sediments in the deep ocean furthest away from the shore.

Note that a mature shoreline would mean that each of these fascies are present, together with the evidence of life forms associated with them, from shore life to intertidal life, to shallow water life to deep water life.

Time is why, real time extending billions of years into the past. The earth is very very very old. Get used to it.


Edited by RAZD, : .

Edited by RAZD, : .

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1578 by Faith, posted 01-04-2020 8:49 PM Faith has not yet responded

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:

Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020