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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Right Side of the News | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
marc9000 Member Posts: 1522 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
Yes they are. The reason you think they're not is because, like most Republicans, you're abandoned conservatism and become a Trumpist. "fiscal sanity" - was Obama more fiscally sane than Trump? Which of today's Democrat presidential candidates are more fiscally sane than Trump? "Strong defense"?? Trump is for less defense than Obama, or Biden/Sanders/Warren? Right now, Iran seems to be a little bit worse player than Russia.
You've misread the columnist. He wasn't listing all core conservative principles. He was listing those Trump has abandoned, with the Republican party following right along. Then why was he, and you, mystified about what Republicans stand for? Did you forget about the more basic ones that I mentioned?
He's certainly abandoned free trade (tariffs), abandoned fiscal responsibility (huge deficit increases), failed to oppose the world's bad players (Putin, Kim Jong-un, Xi Jinping), and abandoned integrity and character (himself). And the Republicans seem fine with this. Most incredibly on that last one, white evangelical churches seem fine with this. He's not perfect, I absolutely agree that he's been less than perfect with his fiscal responsibility promises. But so has presidents before him, they all seem to learn the hard way, just how hard it is to undo big government spending of the past. But the economy is good, Republicans are willing to give him more time based on that alone. I think he'll get a bigger margin of votes for his second term than he did his first. Every two term president has since FDR, except one. Obama.
Except for the part about requiring the English language, I think most people would agree, both liberals and conservatives. Not at all, he didn't even address illegal immigrants. It would have been ugly if he had.
Roosevelt was speaking of immigrants who become citizens. Yes, LEGALLY.
A mere three years ago Republicans did stand for free trade, fiscal sanity, standing up to the world's bad players, and character. About 3 years and three months ago they might have. Three years and two months ago, voters, both Republicans and swing voters, decided it was time to try something slightly different. They now have plenty of jobs, a good economy, and the second coming of Osama Bin Laden dead before he could kill 3000 American civilians.
When it comes to disclosures of classified information, that would be Trump, wouldn't it? Would you like to play the game again? You provide an example of a congressman disclosing classified information, then I provide one of Trump. We'll see who runs out first. Do you really believe that civilians like you and I have perfect access to all information concerning leaks of classified information? It's not even worth a discussion, and again, no rabbit trails for me.
You're following Trump's example to a T. Whatever your side's done wrong, accuse the other side of doing it. Nancy Pelosi pot, meet Nancy Pelosi kettle.
I think your answer requires revisions. The basics were all there. I like a strong economy, and dead terrorists.
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Percy Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Faith writes: What you say about me is true of the Left of course, that's always the case. There's no substance in this rubber/glue argument.
Conservatism is fundamentally for American freedoms, the Left is for forcing things on the people, stealing their money,... That's what the conservatives have told you, and you've fallen for it hook, line and sinker. If conservatives were really for freedom then they would be for the freedom to make one's own choices. If they were against forcing things on people then they wouldn't be trying to force unwanted pregnancies on women. Society is richer when it has true freedom and variety and tolerance with full and fair electoral participation and a level economic playing field, something conservatives have had increasing problems with and Trumpists especially. To borrow some phrasing from Reagan: I didn't leave the conservatives; they left me.
...making them use only the words they deem proper, and so on. Which words would you like to use that liberals are preventing you from using? --Percy
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marc9000 Member Posts: 1522 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
Why is it conservative op-ed commentators who are reporting these supposed news events and not the conservative news media itself? Fox News often reports them too, that's pretty much the extent of conservative news media. But LOCAL network news sometimes reports local events that aren't as politically correct as the national news likes. Things like black on white crime, it seldom makes it to national news. But white on black crime - big national news every time. As the mainstream media gets more shrill and doubles down with its bias, I expect to see some new conservative news media come into being in the near future. Newsmax seems to be a newcomer, one I haven't had a chance to check out much yet.
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marc9000 Member Posts: 1522 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
No one here is calling US conservatism fascist, but Trump does have a very strong authoritarian streak. You must not read jar's posts much, that's good thinking, I try to avoid reading them too, except for entertainment. But it's hard not to notice one of his favorite pastimes, calling conservative's fascists.
Message 3987 Message 3989 Message 4055 Message 4059
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
The text of the constitution and intent of the framers also shows a contempt for liberal democracy. Make your argument supporting this statement. Not sure what you are trying to say, so not sure what way to destroy it.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Well I’m glad that you admit your own contempt for democracy. Though I don’t think many people want to go back to a situation where only 6% of the population can vote.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member
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Don't mind a bit. I knew you'd be delighted about those fires. Celebs Blame Australian Fires on Climate Change Then Police Arrest 24 People for Arsons From the New York Times:
How Rupert Murdoch Is Influencing Australia’s Bushfire Debate No sense in changing the subtitle since the "conservative" response to any information they don't want to hear is to label it "fake news", so this is really addressed to everyone else. The article basically debunks the arson falsehoods.
It’s all part of what critics see as a relentless effort led by the powerful media outlet to do what it has also done in the United States and Britain shift blame to the left, protect conservative leaders and divert attention from climate change. "It’s really reckless and extremely harmful, said Jolle Gergis, an award-winning climate scientist at the Australian National University. It’s insidious because it grows. Once you plant those seeds of doubt, it stops an important conversation from taking place."For this generation of far-right nationalists, religion is not a question of ethical conduct; it is purely about identity and peoplehood. -- Jan-Werner Mller
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined:
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You seem to have a bee in your pants about the climate issues. I asked you weeks ago two simple questions which you haven't answered:
Do you think it is ok to pore toxins into the air we breathe? Do you not accept that CO2 is a greenhouse gas?
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Percy Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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The words from that paragraph.
quote: What does it mean to be "in every facet an American." There is enormous variety among native born Americans and one has to expect even greater variety among recent citizens. When you're over a certain age, it might be 50, you don't even have to know English to become an American.
It was not predicated on people coming here only for free stuff,... There are financial aid packages for those granted asylum or refugee status. A refugee can get $325/month for each adult and $200/month for each child for eight months, and other benefits for longer. Those granted asylum can get food stamps and Medicaid and other benefits. Is that what you're talking about? What is your objection to these programs? Look at it this way. How well do most people do in life who were raised in poverty? How well do most people do who were raised in households with average incomes? With very good incomes? In rich families? The answers are obvious. The better start one has as a child the more successful one is likely one to be as an adult. The same is true of immigrants. Providing assistance gives them a boost at beginning careers and assimilating.
...or to escape problems of other nations. Regions like Puerto Rico (actually a territory) or Syria or Afghanistan seems like good reasons for emigration.
Wasn't predicated on anything like the immigration problems we have today. We don't have any serious immigration problems today. We just have people like Trump firing up anti-immigration fears. The real problem is too little immigration.
I don't know just what prompted him to make those statements, but it's for sure that it wasn't because there was free stuff here for them - there wasn't at that time. The "free stuff" is at most around $5000 over the course of around a year for refugees and asylum grantees. Hopefully that tiny amount helps enough for them to become familiar and productive and living real lives in their new country.
The actions he would have taken against ILLEGAL immigration would make Trump's pale in comparison. And you know this how?
Except that climate change is a real challenge for the human race. Last time you and I talked about it, you made some comment about forest fires only in California, care to comment on what is happening in Australia? Don't mind a bit. I knew you'd be delighted about those fires. Anyone purposefully starting brushfires during an exceptionally hot and dry period, especially after all the fire risk warnings, should be arrested, and apparently 24 have. There's nothing to be "delighted" about here. Climate warming has led to Australia experiencing its greater fire risks ever. Anyone trying to dramatize or bring increased attention to climate change by starting dangerous fires should be condemned by everyone, not to mention arrested and tried.
hint; climate-change corruption has more money and power potential than any other political movement since the beginning of time. Hint: 1) You've never identified this corruption. 2) Every type of human endeavor get touched by corruption at at least some point. Trump was corrupt with his charity. Does that mean we should cease all human endeavors?
The facts are in -- climate change is happening. It is not some wildly ramped up terror conspiracy. Climate change fear has increased faster in the last 3 years than Nazism in early and mid 1930's Germany. Fear might not be the right word, but we should be very concerned about climate change because of the dramatic impact it will have on the world. We're already seeing the effects in increased numbers of severe weather events and in increased sea levels. Many parts of the world are already experiencing the effects of rising sea levels, such as Woodbridge, NJ, Venice, Italy, and coastal Bangladesh, to mention just a few. Many coastal US cities will be severely affected by rising sea levels, New Orleans and Miami to mention just two. The arctic is melting and becoming navigable in the warmer months, and nations are beginning to ready their claims on arctic resources. Regions with permafrost find it is melting and causing sinkholes and coastal collapse.
There's more money and corruption involved than George Soros can even fantasize about. Again, if you've got any evidence of this corruption, let's hear it. You've said this in previous posts, been challenged on it, and have been unable to name anything. Name the corruption this time, else we'll know you're just making it up.
Here's some more facts that are in, few people have any intention of making any sacrifices or paying anything for it. It depends upon how imminent the threat. Personally I'm at about 480 feet above sea level. I'll never be directly affected by rising sea levels. But our local climate has definitely changed. Seasons change at different times than they used to, we get different amounts of rain and snow than we used to, temperatures are more moderate than they used to be, and generally things are wetter. For example, in the fall I never used to have any trouble finding a time to blow the leaves when they were dry and could be blown easily. Now falls are so wet that the leaves never really dry out. And in the last few years moss has started growing where it has never grown before, like down my asphalt driveway which also happens to get the most sun of any spot on my property. For the sake of discussion let's consider that climate change is not man-made and merely reflects natural variation. The course of change has become so relentless that we must still do everything we can to minimize our own contributions to its effects because they'll be catastrophic within a half century. It's imperative that we reach a point where carbon levels in the atmosphere are decreasing. We must stop all methane leaks from oil drilling, pipe lines and such. Here's a graph of atmospheric carbon levels over the past 10,000 years:
And here's a graph of atmospheric carbon levels since 1980:
It seems that about 97% of scientists agree that climate change is caused by humans, and it's looking more and more like that same 97% agree that it's not their own fault, or the fault of their own political beliefs. Most of that 97% are non U.S. scientists of course (who point fingers at the U.S. and a few other successful countries) The ones from the U.S. are mostly liberal atheists, so they point fingers at Trump and Republicans. This wasn't in the Vox article you cited. I think you're making things up again.
It's been almost a year since the genius of the climate change movement, Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, invented the Green New Deal, telling us that our lives are over if we don't completely stop with fossil fuels in 12 years. AOC was not making up information. She presented the best evidence from climate change research which says that within not too many years we'll reach a tipping point beyond which nothing much we do will help. The time to act is now.
Any ideas on just what is to be done to persuade most people to make sacrifices? Set more fires? Sensationalize more and more about snow in January? About hot weather in the summer? Hurricanes? Implying to young people that these things have never happened before? I agree that it is difficult to convince people to make sacrifices for climate events that are still years off and that the current administration disputes. This is where the Trump administration has abdicated its responsibilities. They should be accepting the best science and doing their best to help people see the seriousness of the problem so that we can begin changing how we do things as quickly as possible.
But, as I've said before, I don't think we're going to see another Democrat president in our lifetimes. I don't know how long you expect to live, but I'll take that bet. How much you willing to put up? --Percy
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Curiously, I find it humorous to go back to the start of some arguments to see how much you wander from your own points. It started with:
Message 4095: Trump treats immigrants the way Germany treated Jews -- caging them, separating their families, failing to provide medical attention etc -- that fascist. Was Theodore Roosevelt a fascist? Message 4110: Presumably you have more than just a non-sequitur on fascist actions/attributes. I did a search on "Theodore Roosevelt caging kids, separating their families, failing to provide medical attention etc" ... nothing. Now I realize I may be talking to the wind, but maybe you could explain what characteristics make you think he was? Theodore Roosevelt - Wikipedia I did a search on "Theodore Roosevelt caging kids, separating their families, failing to provide medical attention etc" ... nothing. Now I realize I may be talking to the wind, but maybe you could explain what characteristics make you think he was? The words from that paragraph.
quote: It was not predicated on people coming here only for free stuff, or to escape problems of other nations. Wasn't predicated on anything like the immigration problems we have today. I don't know just what prompted him to make those statements, but it's for sure that it wasn't because there was free stuff here for them - there wasn't at that time. The actions he would have taken against ILLEGAL immigration would make Trump's pale in comparison. And again you have dropped in another non-sequitur. What paragraph, one wonders -- not any mentioned or linked in previous parts of this conversation. Fortunately -for you - I recognized it from an extreme alt-reich facebook page I monitor for chuckles. There was, of course, a bit more to the quote than what you pasted:
quote: Now remember that the original issue was actions by liberals that was on the scale of Trumps fascist treatment of immigrants the way Germany treated Jews -- caging them, separating their families, failing to provide medical attention etc ... ... and this (full) quote has nothing to do with anything comparable to Trump's actions that I can see, it certainly was not any part of government policy and is nothing more than opinion. Something Teddy Roosevelt had in abundance. See more facebook quotes posted by liberalist pages: Update Your Browser | Facebook Update Your Browser | Facebook That last is appropriate for today's discussion/s re Trump's ability/fitness to be president. Now one could argue that these quotes show Teddy to be a populist nationalist, but that doesn't make him a fascist. Which is not surprising seeing as he was a republican, not a liberal. So your effort to provide a comparable fascist action as Trump's treatment of immigrants is a complete failure, with you attempt to hide that fact by introducing non-sequitur arguments and nothing else. RAZD list of fascist actions/policies by Trump -- score 1marc000 list of ANY liberal president comparable -- score 0 As far as I am concerned this issue is closed. You've demonstrated a lack of ability to provide an actual answer. Epic fail. All for now, new message on rest. Enjoyby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Part 2 -- climate change as a leftist terrorist propaganda, actions ...
Again starting back with
Message 4095:
What is comparable done by liberals? Climate-change terror. It has been wildly ramped up since the last year of the Obama administration. So remember the question at hand: is it "terror" or reality:
(RAZD Message 4110: Except that climate change is a real challenge for the human race. Last time you and I talked about it, you made some comment about forest fires only in California, care to comment on what is happening in Australia? Don't mind a bit. I knew you'd be delighted about those fires. Only a conservative would take joy in death and destruction in Australia.
Police Arrest 24 People for Arson in Australian Bushfires
Intentional setting - why? Some of the 180 figure seem to be from just carelessness, but 24 seem to have malicious intent. Do you think they all had separate reasons, or were they coordinated? Are all of the 24 native Australians, or were some of them transported there? Many questions remain to be answered, and they may never be reported on, but I only have one guess as to what special interest organized them and funded them. Can you guess what my guess is? Do you have other guesses? (hint; climate-change corruption has more money and power potential than any other political movement since the beginning of time.) Yes, conservative logic rides again ... when in doubt make up a conspiracy theory.
quote: So obviously all those fires were started by deep state liberal activists as part of a covert action to terrorist people with global climate change ... the evidence is overwhelming ... except that most of the people involve were -- like Americans -- careless with matches and cigarettes (so intentional it boggles the mind). Nor have the police mentioned any coordinated conspiracy, but that doesn't stop conservative conspiracy mills from going into overdrive. Nor does it answer questions of all the other fires, nor does it address the size and aggressiveness of the fires, well beyond anything known before. So I'm sure those deep state liberal activists were out at night pouring gasoline on the fires ...
{abe} oh dear, it looks like chiroptera put the find-outs on your story -- see Message 4162 -- and it's faked up by Master of lies Murdock. So I was right about the conservative's when in doubt make up a conspiracy theory. What a surprise. Not.{/abe} {abe2}Also see Australia fires: The viral false claim of 200 arsonists starting bushfires, explained - Vox} ... but I only have one guess as to what special interest organized them and funded them. Can you guess what my guess is? Do you have other guesses? (hint; climate-change corruption has more money and power potential than any other political movement since the beginning of time.) Hint: you're a whackadoodle conspiracy theorist that has no concept of the size and devastation of the fires, whether started by deep state liberal activists or not. Conspiracy theorist "logic:" 24 arsonists set some fires, therefore global climate change is a hoax. When I was a young man working for the Forest Service in Idaho on a summer job, I was given some forest fire fighting training. It was no easy to start a small fire for the purposes of demonstrating fire fighting techniques, because the conditions were not optimum. We were lucky. Conspiracy activists cannot create optimum conditions for forest fires -- climate does that, climate change is making it worse, with hotter and dryer conditions around the world make such fires bigger and more frequent. The Australians knew it was going to be a bad fire year because of the conditions, but they didn't know exactly how bad and big a problem it would be.
The facts are in -- climate change is happening. It is not some wildly ramped up terror conspiracy. Climate change fear has increased faster in the last 3 years than Nazism in early and mid 1930's Germany. There's more money and corruption involved than George Soros can even fantasize about. More fact free assertion of conspiracy theory ignoring small details, like people aren't causing dry climates to make fires more frequent or larger, the climate is changing: it's been measured.
Climate change polls: Americans are more worried about climate change - Vox It seems that about 97% of scientists agree that climate change is caused by humans, and it's looking more and more like that same 97% agree that it's not their own fault, or the fault of their own political beliefs. Most of that 97% are non U.S. scientists of course (who point fingers at the U.S. and a few other successful countries) The ones from the U.S. are mostly liberal atheists, so they point fingers at Trump and Republicans. And once again your article does not back up your claim, climate scientists are not mentioned at all, so your claim about them in unsubstantiated malarkey/shinola. Instead it shows how Americans are becoming more aware of climate change and concerned about it ... because of their own experiences with the effects of climate changes around them.
quote: underline, italics added
It's been almost a year since the genius of the climate change movement, Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, invented the Green New Deal, telling us that our lives are over if we don't completely stop with fossil fuels in 12 years. Just about down to 11 now, times a wastin. Any ideas on just what is to be done to persuade most people to make sacrifices? Set more fires? Sensationalize more and more about snow in January? About hot weather in the summer? Hurricanes? Implying to young people that these things have never happened before? In my area, the Cincinnati area, we had 2 brutal winters on both sides of 1977, 32 years ago. Much more snow than average - the Ohio river froze solid in early 77, people were walking across it. Thankfully that was before climate change was invented, there would be a complete panic, probably involving martial law, if that happened today under a Democrat president / senate. It would be funny if it weren't so pathetic how misinformed and out of touch you are.
quote: Curiously I studied it in 1970 at university ... and have followed developments since.
But, as I've said before, I don't think we're going to see another Democrat president in our lifetimes. Going by the accuracy of your other claims, I'm not worried. Unless of course Il Donald declares martial law to take over ... OBTW -- you have failed to show that climate change is a liberal terrorist plot ... no surprise. So: marc2000 liberal terrorist plots uncovered to date 0. Epic fail. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : . Edited by RAZD, : . Edited by RAZD, : ..by our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 764 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined:
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Marc, back around 1901 in Teddy’s day, illegal immigration was pretty much being a stowaway on a ship coming to the USA. Legal immigration was buying a ticket. Depending on what year, there were restrictions on undesirables such as Chinese folks, but they didn’t issue visas back then.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Coragyps writes: Marc, back around 1901 in Teddy’s day, illegal immigration was pretty much being a stowaway on a ship coming to the USA. In the 1800s and 1900s Illegal Immigrants were Cherokees owning plantations and fine house or Plains Indians living where there was gold or silver or grazing lands or sheep ranchers invading cattle country or people trying to keep the herds out of their crops. Chinese could come into the country as long as there were tunnels to dig and rail lines to be laid. But then we stopped trying to take advantage of immigrants and all was jess fine. Check the date on the lower right:
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JonF Member (Idle past 198 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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Trump’s DOJ quietly ends two-year fishing expedition on the Clintons and admits it found nothing
quote:
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Doesn't matter to Trump's rumor mill which feeds his backing. All he ever needs is news releases that an investigation has started. Works in the Ukraine, works here.
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