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Author | Topic: I Know That God Does Not Exist | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Sarah Bellum writes:
You have not given an answer. You've just repeated the same mantra, "It's not logical, it's not logical, it's not logical." I give you an answer and you ignore it, pretending that I haven't posted an answer. I have asked you for specific logical errors. I have given examples - Appeal to Popularity, etc. Name the logical errors. That's all. Once you have named the errors, we can discuss whether or not they are actually errors.
Sarah Bellum writes:
That's like asking, "Have you stopped beating your wife?" It's a dishonest question. There is no simple yes or no answer. I'll give you another chance though, a simple yes or no question: Is the concept of a deity a rational thing? A concept, in and of itself, is not rational or irrational. If it has sound reasoning behind it, it is rational. If it has no sound reasoning behind it, it is not rational. As Tangle has said, there can be sound reasoning behind the concept of deities. You need to point out how the reasoning behind the concept of deities is not rational."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 623 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
One thing I mentioned was the personification of natural forces. Even the ancients who used the analogy of a blacksmith at a forge to imagine a supernatural entity whose hammer raised sparks that made the heat and light of a volcano must have known that the connection was more literary than literal, not a rational thing but rather a poetic thing.
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 623 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
Another thing I mentioned was the "modern" concept of a creator deity who wasn't himself created, who somehow knows and commands everything but also allows free will. There's enough logical lacunae there to fill (or empty?) the Olduvai Gorge.
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 623 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
In message 2446 you did a creditable job of ducking.
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 623 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
But can it be supported by rational argument?
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Sarah Bellum writes:
That doesn't answer the question. Personification is not a logical error. One thing I mentioned was the personification of natural forces."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Sarah Bellum writes:
I'm not asking for gaps. I'm asking for errors. There's enough logical lacunae there to fill (or empty?) the Olduvai Gorge."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Sarah Bellum writes:
You asked a dishonest question and I gave an honest answer. In message 2446 you did a creditable job of ducking."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 623 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
Indeed. For example, one may rely on the advice of a friend who has a reputation of good judgment and make a wrong choice (rational, but wrong) but on the other hand one might base one's choice on a horoscope and get lucky (right, but irrational).
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 623 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
Yes, just as sentences can be true or false one concept may be illogical while a different concept may be logical. If you're saying that there are some concepts of a deity that are rational and some that are irrational I suppose one could stretch the concept into meaninglessness (People in the 1950s were said to have worshipped Juan Peron). But that is merely dropping down the proverbial rabbit hole.
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 623 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
I wrote "logical lacunae" to refer to gaps in logic. Logic that has gaps has flaws, does it not?
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 623 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
To say that, despite the evidence it's not solar radiation and the Coriolis effect but Poseidon who brings the great storms, is not logical.
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 623 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
Saying "There is no simple yes or no answer" is a fair answer.
For a start. But not following up, simply leaving it at "there can be sound reasoning behind the concept of deities" without giving us some whys is leaving the answer incomplete (ducking).
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Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
SB writes: But can it be supported by rational argument? Yes of course, there's a wide body of perfectly respectable philosophical argument for the existence of a deity.
quote: Existence of God - Wikipedia But the existence of rational arguments for something doesn't make that something true - there are at least as many rational arguments concluding the opposite. And of course none of the arguments support a theistic god. If, by using logic alone, you think that you can show the existence of a god, you've still got all your work ahead of you to show that it's the theistic god that YOU believe in. And if you could do it without logic ie empirically, we'd all believe. Or more accurately, we wouldn't need to believe; it would be a fact like the existence of electricity.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 623 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
quote:But the point is that the arguments aren't rational, they are all pure wish-fulfillment or a vague sort of "How could all this wondrous etc. etc. etc. without a designer?" It's emotional, not logical.
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