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Author Topic:   Catholics are making it up.
jar
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Posts: 32743
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 406 of 505 (870717)
01-24-2020 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 405 by Phat
01-24-2020 4:32 AM


Finally one almost correct statement
Phat writes:

Belief is still very powerful and there will never be a shortage of charlatans selling easy solutions.

Almost. The correct statement is that there will never be a shortage of people looking for the easy solution. It is not the charlatan that is deplorable but the customers.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 405 by Phat, posted 01-24-2020 4:32 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 5409
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 407 of 505 (870727)
01-24-2020 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 401 by Phat
01-23-2020 7:39 PM


Re: All religions are of human origin.
GDR writes:

Those books are evidence, as is the fact that the first followers of Jesus clearly believed that Jesus had been resurrected. I am not saying that the evidence is conclusive. We have come to different conclusions about whether or not the resurrection was a historical event.

Thugpreacha writes:

I would argue that the only evidence we actually have is the behavior of humans in response to these writings. Atheists may well argue that they too can do civic duties with no religion needed.

Our interaction with fellow believers carries more weight because of our shared belief, but this does not prevent us from interacting with any group of people doing Christ's work---either knowingly or unknowingly. Wouldn't you agree?

I'm not really clear on what you mean. As Christians we make certain claims, and how we live our lives can add credibility to those claims. But I'm not sure I would call it evidence of the claims that God exists, that He is perfectly good and loving and that He resurrected Jesus.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 401 by Phat, posted 01-23-2020 7:39 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 5409
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 408 of 505 (870730)
01-24-2020 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 404 by Tangle
01-24-2020 3:28 AM


Re: All religions are of human origin.
Tangle writes:

They are evidence that some unknown people wrote some stories and that some politicians several centuries later chose some of them and redacted others to form a book and create a useful power structure. That's all.

They are compilations of material, oral and presumably written, of something that happened that no one had expected. Without the resurrection Jesus would have simply been another failed messiah and wouldn't even have been a footnote in history. However, unlike all the more notable messianic figures that led short lived revolts against the Romans the Jesus movement continues to this day.

Tangle writes:

According to the stories they also believed that it was the beginning of the end of times. That the second coming was imminent. It wasn't. They were superstitious primitive people that believed all sorts of nonsense.

Firstly, that is primarily based on a misreading of what is in the Gospels. Jesus was political and preached an anti-revolutionary message and warned the Jewish nation of what the results would be if they went through with violent revolution. This was born out in fact by the war in 66-70 AD.

Another thing is that the Biblical message is not about the end of the world but about it's renewal. The idea of the world ending was that a lot of Greek philosophy, particularly Platonism crept into Christian thinking.

Certainly, there was belief as there has always been that Christ's return was imminent. We saw that not very long ago in one of Faith's threads. People have always wanted to have special knowledge of the future.

Tangle writes:

However you asserted more than that, you were claiming some sort of progressive revelation -

I asserted that there has been a progressive understanding. In the Biblical era we can see how in the most ancient of stories God is mostly understood to be vindictive, unforgiving and even genocidal. (That is not completely true though.) Over time the idea of a loving merciful god crept into their thinking such as in the suffering servant in Isaiah, or it can even be seen in my signature. The Biblical era climaxes in the accounts of Jesus who embodied and preached the true nature of God as loving, merciful, forgiving and just.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 404 by Tangle, posted 01-24-2020 3:28 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 412 by Tangle, posted 01-24-2020 12:51 PM GDR has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18570
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 409 of 505 (870732)
01-24-2020 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 402 by Phat
01-23-2020 8:04 PM


Re: Dogmatic Prophecy
Phat writes:

That's my whole point--God is *not* evil.


And as I said, that contradicts your quote. The Revelation says that God is EVERYTHING. There is NOTHING that He is not.

Phat writes:

God is not a liar. God is not deceptive. These are the traits of Satan.


That's you diminishing God.

There is no separate Satan. Satan is an agent of God. Satan is a part of God.

Phat writes:

... the Beast is shown to be an *is not* as in is not God.


If that was true, it would be the Revelation contradicting itself. Your own quote says that nothing can be "not God".

Phat writes:

If humans choose to behave independently of God, they will find themselves not on the guest list since by default they followed the Beast rather than God.


Jesus Himself said who would be on the guest list - those who do things for others instead of depending on God to do it for them. If there is anything to that demented "Beast" story, the ones who "follow the Beast" are the ones who DO depend on God instead of doing it themselves.

Phat writes:

But if reality includes this whole paradigm you cant opt-out.


The paradigm you suggest isn't even self-consistent. Your reading of the Revelation contradicts itself and it contradicts Jesus.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 402 by Phat, posted 01-23-2020 8:04 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 410 by Phat, posted 01-24-2020 11:06 AM ringo has responded
 Message 414 by Phat, posted 01-24-2020 11:27 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14344
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 410 of 505 (870733)
01-24-2020 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 409 by ringo
01-24-2020 10:50 AM


Re: Dogmatic Prophecy
oh my stars!

I am the First and the Last does not equate to I AM Everything! That's clear pantheism and we are talking monotheism.

You claim that we are satan (and potentially we are God) in that its all human-centric. Revelation is unclear where all this vision takes place, but some will argue that both Satan and God are external to humanity and not a product of our imagination.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”lvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott

This message is a reply to:
 Message 409 by ringo, posted 01-24-2020 10:50 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 411 by ringo, posted 01-24-2020 11:12 AM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18570
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 411 of 505 (870735)
01-24-2020 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 410 by Phat
01-24-2020 11:06 AM


Re: Dogmatic Prophecy
Phat writes:

I am the First and the Last does not equate to I AM Everything!


Yes it does. There are NO letters in the alphabet except those between Alpha and Omega. That is a very clear analogy. There is nothing before the Beginning and nothing after the End. that is a very clear analogy.

What on earth do you think those analogies mean if they are not all-inclusive?

Phat writes:

That's clear pantheism and we are talking monotheism.


It says what it says. If it means pantheism, that's your problem, not mine.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 410 by Phat, posted 01-24-2020 11:06 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 413 by Phat, posted 01-24-2020 9:35 PM ringo has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7832
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 412 of 505 (870750)
01-24-2020 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 408 by GDR
01-24-2020 10:43 AM


Re: All religions are of human origin.
GDR writes:

They are compilations of material, oral and presumably written, of something that happened that no one had expected.

They're a collection of anonymous folk tales. The only difference between these and all the rest is that a powerful emperor adopted them and used them to further his political ambitions.

Without the resurrection Jesus would have simply been another failed messiah and wouldn't even have been a footnote in history.

There is extremely scant evidence that Jesus actually exists; there is absolutely no evidence of a resurrection.

Firstly, that is primarily based on a misreading of what is in the Gospels.

Nope, it's a direct reading of what's written. Your hero CS Lewis describes it as the 'most embarrassing verse in the bible'. Of course you bend over backwards to make it say something that it doesn't but it's clear what it means and it's clear that those in the story thought that the second coming was imminent.

I asserted that there has been a progressive understanding. In the Biblical era we can see how in the most ancient of stories God is mostly understood to be vindictive, unforgiving and even genocidal.

That is what the words say, so that is what they mean.

(That is not completely true though.)

Of course it is.

Over time the idea of a loving merciful god crept into their thinking such as in the suffering servant in Isaiah, or it can even be seen in my signature. The Biblical era climaxes in the accounts of Jesus who embodied and preached the true nature of God as loving, merciful, forgiving and just.

Well that's because the old testament was written by a bunch of people who believed all that primitive vengeful stuff because that was how their lives where. And the new testament was written by different bunch of people that didn't like the story of that god so invented a story of a nicer god. All societies make gods to whatever model their culture requires at that time. You can see it everywhere and everywhen.

This 'progressive' understanding is new; even though the nicer NT has been around for 2,000 years, the idea of a vengeful, retributive god full of fire and brimstone existed until a couple of generations ago. Your nice liberal views would have got you burnt as a heretic in the middle ages.

But in any case, the only 'data' you have - though it's not data at all - is what's written in that book; there can be no 'progressive understanding' based on actual knowledge of god since that work.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 408 by GDR, posted 01-24-2020 10:43 AM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 417 by GDR, posted 01-25-2020 12:26 PM Tangle has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14344
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 413 of 505 (870795)
01-24-2020 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 411 by ringo
01-24-2020 11:12 AM


Re: Dogmatic Prophecy
The cows have come home and still we argue!
Phat writes:

I am the First and the Last does not equate to I AM Everything!


ringo writes:

Yes it does. There are NO letters in the alphabet except those between Alpha and Omega. That is a very clear analogy. There is nothing before the Beginning and nothing after the End. that is a very clear analogy.

It means that God existed before our beginning as humans...and perhaps before time itself began to exist...which would imply before space existed as well. God spoke the universe banged and later on, here we came.
ringo writes:

What on earth do you think those analogies mean if they are not all-inclusive?

FYI:

including everything or everyone.
"the tab for the all-inclusive dinner is $38"
There is a distinct difference between describing a physical universe, for example, that includes within itself everything and everyone and a Deity Who created everything and everyone. The very phrase "I Am" sums up the source of the voice that John heard.

Rev 1:8 writes:

"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

So what on earth can you even suggest regarding all-inclusiveness? I am....(says the Lord). Panthesism would suggest that the universe itself was God. It was here before the big Bang and will stay here long after any scribes or supercomputers will be able to describe. But it is not possessive of a voice. John was clearly "in the spirit"...he was not hallucinating on magic mushrooms.
Wiki writes:

The definition of all inclusive is something where nothing is left out and where everything is considered or part of the package. An example of all inclusive is a resort where your drinks and meals are offered to you for free as part of your reservation at the resort.

It makes more sense to imply a Creator/creation relationship rather than a whole of whom we (and Satan) are but parts of. If you see otherwise, thats only your stubborn propensity to argue about anything and everything and is not my fault. At best you have proven that your thinking is all inclusive of any point not made by your opponent!

Rev 1:9-11 writes:

I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11 saying, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last," and, "What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea."
NKJV

To be fair, it sounds a bit convoluted that John, writing in exile on the Island of patmos, would narrarate that he was on the island of patmos and "in the spirit" when he heard a voice. What do you think? That the narrative was written by someone else using john as a plot device? Anyway...to continue...
We now see that God and jesus both are described as the first and the last. We know this last verse speaks of jesus rather than God the father because
18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore.

Another reason that Revelation seems plausible as coming from Jesus (through John, the one whom He loved) is due to the reprimand of the various church bodies in the world close to that time. This was long before the emperor Constantine made Christianity "official" so the very fact that there were churches suggests that people were prompted to create them for some reason. A Death, Burial, and Resurrection would suffice. The reprimand involves similar characteristics that one could find fault with in any church.

Revelation 2:1-the Loveless Church
Revelation 2:8-The Persecuted Church
Revelation 2:12-The Compromising Church
Revelation 2:18-The Corrupt Church
Revelation 3:1-The Dead Church (as in lifeless and shallow)
Revelation 3:7-The Faithful Church (suggestive of the Raptured Church, should that doctrine prove true..
Revelation 3:14- The Lukewarm Church

One can argue that these 7 churches each have 1 or more faults common to humanity.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”lvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott

This message is a reply to:
 Message 411 by ringo, posted 01-24-2020 11:12 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 415 by ringo, posted 01-25-2020 11:04 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14344
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 414 of 505 (870797)
01-24-2020 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 409 by ringo
01-24-2020 10:50 AM


Re: Dogmatic Prophecy
ringo writes:

If there is anything to that demented "Beast" story, the ones who "follow the Beast" are the ones who DO depend on God instead of doing it themselves.


Hmmm reminds me of a scripture:
Isaiah5:20 writes:

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!

There are many scriptures that suggest that following God is the way to go. This does not mean that we are not doing anything "ourselves" for others...it simply means that this defines listening to God as He would want you to do for others. There is no such thing as doing anything yourself.(Of course, you don't see it, because you believe no God exists. ) And if God's voice somehow appeared in your conscience, you would think it to be a mental condition and take meds for it. You want to do everything yourself. Even if God existed you likely would close the door on Him.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”lvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott

This message is a reply to:
 Message 409 by ringo, posted 01-24-2020 10:50 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 416 by ringo, posted 01-25-2020 11:12 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18570
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 415 of 505 (870830)
01-25-2020 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 413 by Phat
01-24-2020 9:35 PM


Re: Dogmatic Prophecy
Phat writes:

It means that God existed before our beginning as humans...and perhaps before time itself began to exist...which would imply before space existed as well.


That might work if the author hadn't also mentioned Alpha and Omega. The complete alphabet has nothing to do with time. The context implies a more general completeness.

Phat writes:

There is a distinct difference between describing a physical universe, for example, that includes within itself everything and everyone and a Deity Who created everything and everyone.


There's no difference in the completeness.

Phat writes:

The very phrase "I Am" sums up the source of the voice that John heard.


The source of the voice is not in question here. The nature of the source is in question. Is it a complete God (Alpha and Omega) or a puny half-god like you portray?

Phat writes:

Rev 1:18 writes:

"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."


So what on earth can you even suggest regarding all-inclusiveness?

Alpha and Omega includes the whole alphabet. All of it.

Phat writes:

Panthesism would suggest that the universe itself was God... But it is not possessive of a voice.


Why not?

Phat writes:

John was clearly "in the spirit"...he was not hallucinating on magic mushrooms.


That's far from clear. Something akin to magic mushrooms seems pretty likely.

Phat writes:

It makes more sense to imply a Creator/creation relationship rather than a whole of whom we (and Satan) are but parts of.


How does it "make more sense". Show us the sense.

Phat writes:

If you see otherwise, thats only your stubborn propensity to argue about anything and everything and is not my fault.


That's only your stubborn propensity to swallow everything the apologists say without actually reading the Bible and thinking it through for yourself. That propensity weakens your qualification to declare what "makes more sense".

Phat writes:

At best you have proven that your thinking is all inclusive of any point not made by your opponent!


I'm not trying to prove anything (about a God who doesn't exist). I'm just pointing out what the Bible says.

Phat writes:

What do you think? That the narrative was written by someone else using john as a plot device?


That's entirely possible. Do you think Jim Hawkins was a real person? Or that the story he told was true?

Phat writes:

We now see that God and jesus both are described as the first and the last. We know this last verse speaks of jesus rather than God the father because....


That doesn't work if Jesus is God.

Phat writes:

... the very fact that there were churches suggests that people were prompted to create them for some reason.


Yes and there must have been "some reason" for creating the Mormon Church, the Church of Scientology, the Raelian Church.... "Some reason" for doing it is does not mean that the thinking behind the church has any merit.

Phat writes:

A Death, Burial, and Resurrection would suffice.


A story about a death, burial and resurrection would suffice. Just like a story about angels writing on golden tablets would suffice. This has been pointed out to you many times before. The story does not have to be true.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 413 by Phat, posted 01-24-2020 9:35 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18570
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 416 of 505 (870832)
01-25-2020 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 414 by Phat
01-24-2020 11:27 PM


Re: Dogmatic Prophecy
Phat writes:

There are many scriptures that suggest that following God is the way to go.


I didn't say that following God is evil. I said that the way to follow God is not by bleating, "Lord! Lord!" and expecting Him to do everything for you. It's by doing unto the least of these.

Phat writes:

There is no such thing as doing anything yourself


Of course there is. Don't be silly.

Phat writes:

You want to do everything yourself.


I have to do everything for myself.

Phat writes:

Even if God existed you likely would close the door on Him.


Stop it. You're just trying to rationalize your own silly beliefs.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 414 by Phat, posted 01-24-2020 11:27 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 5409
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 417 of 505 (870840)
01-25-2020 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 412 by Tangle
01-24-2020 12:51 PM


Re: All religions are of human origin.
Tangle writes:

They're a collection of anonymous folk tales.

Which doesn't mean they aren't at least reasonably accurate.

Tangle writes:

The only difference between these and all the rest is that a powerful emperor adopted them and used them to further his political ambitions.

He adopted the religion because it had already been adopted by so many. Also unfortunately, it caused Christianity to become a route to political power which to a noticeable degree shifted the faith away from it's message of love of neighbour and even enemy. It also was the start of bringing in a lot of Greek philosophy and was the start of separating Jesus from His Jewishness.

Tangle writes:

There is extremely scant evidence that Jesus actually exists; there is absolutely no evidence of a resurrection.

There is considerable evidence even if it isn't conclusive, which we have gone over before. The compilers of the Gospels and the writers of the rest of the NT believed it and none of the early followers would have had any motivation to continue the movement after the crucifixion without the resurrection. Without the resurrection Jesus would never have been remembered . He would simply have been another failed messiah, and one that hadn't even been able to have any revolutionary success.

Tangle writes:

Nope, it's a direct reading of what's written. Your hero CS Lewis describes it as the 'most embarrassing verse in the bible'. Of course you bend over backwards to make it say something that it doesn't but it's clear what it means and it's clear that those in the story thought that the second coming was imminent.

Lewis was a great Christian philosopher. He took pains to point out that he wasn't a theologian. Modern theologians such as N T (Tom) Wright have realized much of what Jesus was talking about was His anti-revolutionary message.

Tangle writes:

That is what the words say, so that is what they mean.

That doesn't mean they got it right.

Tangle writes:

Well that's because the old testament was written by a bunch of people who believed all that primitive vengeful stuff because that was how their lives where. And the new testament was written by different bunch of people that didn't like the story of that god so invented a story of a nicer god. All societies make gods to whatever model their culture requires at that time. You can see it everywhere and everywhen.

This 'progressive' understanding is new; even though the nicer NT has been around for 2,000 years, the idea of a vengeful, retributive god full of fire and brimstone existed until a couple of generations ago. Your nice liberal views would have got you burnt as a heretic in the middle ages.

I agree. Thankfully we have a progressive understanding of the nature of God. My views as I have said before aren't necessarily Liberal. There are pretty much mainstream Anglicanism.

Tangle writes:

But in any case, the only 'data' you have - though it's not data at all - is what's written in that book; there can be no 'progressive understanding' based on actual knowledge of god since that work.

Nonsense. WE have 2000 years of Christian scholarship that has continued to shed light on the subject.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 412 by Tangle, posted 01-24-2020 12:51 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 418 by Tangle, posted 01-25-2020 1:02 PM GDR has not yet responded
 Message 425 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 06-24-2020 4:58 PM GDR has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7832
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 418 of 505 (870846)
01-25-2020 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 417 by GDR
01-25-2020 12:26 PM


Re: All religions are of human origin.
GDR writes:

Which doesn't mean they aren't at least reasonably accurate.

Being 2,000 year old folk tales means that they can't possibly be accurate.

I agree. Thankfully we have a progressive understanding of the nature of God.

You have an 2,000 year old opinion about the nature of your god.

My views as I have said before aren't necessarily Liberal. There are pretty much mainstream Anglicanism.

You're kidding! Anglicanism is the liberal arm of Christianity.

GDR writes:

Nonsense. WE have 2000 years of Christian scholarship that has continued to shed light on the subject.

But all they have to study is what's in a single book. There is no other data available to be studied and 'scholarship' can't agree even on that.

You have a belief. That's all it is. The rest is waffle.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 417 by GDR, posted 01-25-2020 12:26 PM GDR has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1717
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 419 of 505 (870892)
01-26-2020 12:49 AM


Constantine did not bring the Greek Logos into Christianity.
He did essentially kill those who rejected the 100 A. D. Gospel which later was attributed to John.

Constantine enshrined the European Christianity that develops strongly as the second century progresses

He no more invented the current situation that calls itself Christianity than Martin Luther and King James did.

Fundamentalism accepts the Greek philosopher's Logos not because of Constantine and Pope Damascus from the fourth century Roman Empire but because of the early second century Gospel of John which was presented as a writing from a Jewish Christian who Jesus himself knew and loved. That means that fundamentalists have views that largely predate Constantine. In part at least.

This was a reply to post 417

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


  
proudly roman catholic
Member
Posts: 1838
Joined: 01-12-2004
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 420 of 505 (877971)
06-24-2020 6:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tangle
09-08-2015 3:47 AM


ive never seen such poppycock before on a forum

such a blatant irresponsible ignorant take on an entire faith community

you don't understand a thing about roman Catholicism or pope francis

u claim the pope has cancelled purgatory?

the hell is wrong with you

where do you get off posting such wild misinformation about my religion

stick to whatever the hell you post about

sorry to be crude

what an inflammatory thread for a catholic 2 read

MAYBE YOU SHOULD STOP READING TABLOIDS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT POPE FRANCIS IS DOING

BECAUSE YOU CLEARLY HAVE ZERO IDEA ABOUT ANYTHING RELEVANT TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

WHY DON'T YOU AT LEAST LOOK FOR CATHOLIC NEWS SOURCES ON THE PONTIFF

Edited by a servant of Christ, : No reason given.

Edited by a servant of Christ, : No reason given.

Edited by a servant of Christ, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Tangle, posted 09-08-2015 3:47 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 421 by Tangle, posted 06-24-2020 7:15 AM proudly roman catholic has responded
 Message 422 by AZPaul3, posted 06-24-2020 8:58 AM proudly roman catholic has not yet responded

  
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